2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Macho0978]

When you look at teams that win the cup, they often have either 1 elite dman that does everything or a top pairing that is elite at shutting down the other teams best line with 1 other guy that is elite on the PP. 3-4 big dmen.

Carolina is undersized on d, needs someone to pair with Slavin too. Maybe Ras isn't the best option for them.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Hedman, Stamkos, Barkov and Ekblad say Hi

Neither TB or Florida "Built Around" an elite goalie. They acquired their elite goalies who they got after they drafted their core players top 2

That doesn't mean they were not instrumental in the wins. But neither Stanley Cup winning goalie was there when they were drafted top 2 and getting core players of their championships

Stamkos had one point in the Lightning's first Stanley Cup run, not sure he played a major role in that win. Ekblad was a 3/4 dman last year and this year is probably their #3 so not sure he is a core stud piece. But sure, they were drafted high.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Is it luck when they did it again with Stankoven
And Hintz
And Harley

At what point it isn’t luck but that maybe they are actually good at finding players?

I agree that if you do it consistently, at some point it isn't luck. However, it is difficult to say that we have seen enough to determine that it isn't luck - SOME team has to get the most hits, even if it is ENTIRELY random. It would be near impossible to determine statistically, whether or not it is luck.

Here's a real world example: If an investment manager beats the market by 5% per year, it would still take over 60 years to determine with 95% confidence, that they were doing it with skill and not luck (according to DFA).

Regardless of all that, even if it IS skill, that still isn't a strategy - every team is trying to draft well.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Trading the Vet's isn't just to tank/get a better draft position. It is also to maximize their assets.

Coleman is 33. In 23/24 he got a career high 30 goals. Last year 18. Do we expect him to get better as he ages? He is a depreciating asset

Kadri is 35 and just got a career high 35 goals, and third best career 67 points. Do we expect him to get better as he ages? He is a depreciating asset

Weegar is 31. He had a career high 20 goals 2 seasons ago. He arguably played better or as good last season. He will soon become a depreciating asset

Now it can be argued the rate these assets are depreciating (and I could even buy an argument if they keep up their play as their contracts have less term they are more valuable) but the odds of older players continuing to have career years and hold their value are very low.

It is also a double edged sword. If these players hit the age wall, their value is much lower but the Flames are a worse team and can draft higher, but their trade value has decreased.

If they do well, the Flames may sneak into 8th but they can't/odds are against them acquiring top talent at the top of the draft.

If we are honest best case the Flames are 3-5 years from being a playoff contender. At that time non of these guys are going to be a part of the team except Weegar who would be 34-37.

Why limp around for the next few years as these assets depreciate being stuck in the middle hoping you come out in 3-5 years and have luckily drafted some elite talent lower in the draft? Why ship out 2nd and (3rd) picks for 25/26 year old guys like Frost and Farabee who will be 30 and expensive (best case) when this team is a contender? Why signs guys like Shag for 5 years instead of dealing for more picks and finding the next 20 year old Shag who will be in his prime as we start to contend.

Even Dallas - Who people want to emulate - finished in the bottom half of the standing for almost a decade before accumulating enough talent (and hitting 1 amazing draft)

Here is where Dallas picked when their rebuild started / when they started being bad.

2009 - 8th
2010 - 11th
2011 - 14th
2012 - 13th
2013 - 10th
2014 - 14th
2015 - 12th
2016 - 25th
2017 - 3rd (Won Lottery)
2018 - 13th
2019 - 19th

Dallas WAS stuck in the mushy middle for almost a decade before they hit their super draft. You could argue their model did fail for a decade.

No team in NHL history that I can remember has ever successfully re-tooled around an aging, non superstar core. The Flames are trying to become the first ever.

I like our odds!

To be fair, I don’t think it is the flames intention to rebuild around an aging non-star core. I think it’s to build around a young group of players buttressed by an ageing group of players and I suspect that, over time these aging players will be phased out.

It sounds highly likely Andersson will be dealt around the draft and there maybe an outside chance Coleman is as well. What happens with Backlund at the deadline?

There is a case here to believe that the current Andersson, Weegar, Huberdeau, Kadri, Coleman group could be down to Weegar, Kadri Huberdeau this time next year.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Stamkos had one point in the Lightning's first Stanley Cup run, not sure he played a major role in that win. Ekblad was a 3/4 dman last year and this year is probably their #3 so not sure he is a core stud piece. But sure, they were drafted high.

This is another reason why these arbitrary requirements rarely make any sense. They’re easier for fans to digest and simplify things down, “oh we just need to do this and we’ll be a contender but if we don’t we won’t!” but that’s not really how it works in practice.

“We need a top five pick!”

Basically everyone has a top five pick.

“We need an elite center!”

Yet teams win without them and teams with them don’t.

“We can’t have the goalie drafted before the center and defence!”

Yet two of the most successful franchises over the last 15 years did exactly that.

Best to just let things play out and wait until Calgary becomes the an example people use to justify the way things should be done to win a cup, or not! That’s the fun part.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is another reason why these arbitrary requirements rarely make any sense. They’re easier for fans to digest and simplify things down, “oh we just need to do this and we’ll be a contender but if we don’t we won’t!” but that’s not really how it works in practice.

“We need a top five pick!”

Basically everyone has a top five pick.

“We need an elite center!”

Yet teams win without them and teams with them don’t.

“We can’t have the goalie drafted before the center and defence!”

Yet two of the most successful franchises over the last 15 years did exactly that.

Best to just let things play out and wait until Calgary becomes the an example people use to justify the way things should be done to win a cup, or not! That’s the fun part.

Whether you are pro tank or not, building a team with a great GM and very good scouting staff is the #1 asset. Even though I would be very happy to see most our vets moved, right now I trust Conroy to make good moves and sign good contracts. Next move really should be Wolf's new contract anyways.

I also have high confidence in our scouts and what they have got us over then last 10 years or so. Not Dallas good, but we are up there in drafting outside the 1st round.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Whether you are pro tank or not, building a team with a great GM and very good scouting staff is the #1 asset. Even though I would be very happy to see most our vets moved, right now I trust Conroy to make good moves and sign good contracts. Next move really should be Wolf's new contract anyways.

I also have high confidence in our scouts and what they have got us over then last 10 years or so. Not Dallas good, but we are up there in drafting outside the 1st round.

If my cryptic gif reading skills are as sharp as I think they are, Wolfs deal is all but announced because it can’t be yet. July 1.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Stamkos had one point in the Lightning's first Stanley Cup run, not sure he played a major role in that win. Ekblad was a 3/4 dman last year and this year is probably their #3 so not sure he is a core stud piece. But sure, they were drafted high.

And their Stanley Cups came a decade after they picked high. 8 years after they picked Hedman, they were still out of the POs.

10-11 years isn't exactly the rebuild timeline the tankers tout.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is another reason why these arbitrary requirements rarely make any sense. They’re easier for fans to digest and simplify things down, “oh we just need to do this and we’ll be a contender but if we don’t we won’t!” but that’s not really how it works in practice.

“We need a top five pick!”

Basically everyone has a top five pick.

“We need an elite center!”

Yet teams win without them and teams with them don’t.

“We can’t have the goalie drafted before the center and defence!”

Yet two of the most successful franchises over the last 15 years did exactly that.

Best to just let things play out and wait until Calgary becomes the an example people use to justify the way things should be done to win a cup, or not! That’s the fun part.

Who won cups without elite centers?
St. Louis maybe? That list is pretty darn short.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Who won cups without elite centers?
St. Louis maybe? That list is pretty darn short.

Lightning in 2020 as well. But it doesn’t matter, could be one or 100.

The point is not to obsess over some made up criteria. Enjoy the ride.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Who won cups without elite centers?
St. Louis maybe? That list is pretty darn short.

St. Louis and Washington for sure. Yes it’s a short list, but the point being made is nothing is certain one way or the other. And talking like it is certain is a fools game.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Carolina needs a Kadri TBH !

And Wolf....Weegar, Coleman and Parekh.......AND Bahl!!!


We will get 3 or 4 first round picks for that for sure
Then
Without a doubt, we will win.....from what I read here anyway

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Who won cups without elite centers?
St. Louis maybe? That list is pretty darn short.

Who didn't win cups in recent years but had elite centres? Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver (well, he was considered elite), Toronto, NJ, Canes (present version), San Jose.

Boston had an elite centre in Bergeron, though he's not the scorer some would call elite, but that was when he was 25 and they never got another one.

[Sandman]

Man, I wish we had a shot a Mason McTavish, he would be absolutely perfect. Size (6'1",218lbs), age (22 yo), and does a bit of everything. I don't think we have anything of interest to them even if he was on the block, apart from Parekh- and that's a no-go. Their prospect base is STACKED.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

St. Louis and Washington for sure. Yes it’s a short list, but the point being made is nothing is certain one way or the other. And talking like it is certain is a fools game.

Washington had Backstrom. When they won the cup he had just rattled of his fifth of six straight 70+ point seasons (and he had two straight point-per-game seasons that were cut short just prior to that, a 65 point season, and prior to that two seasons of 88 and 101 points)

Backstrom doesn't get the publicity, but he was definitely elite.

(plus, the year they won, Kuznetsov had an 80+ point season. Only one of those guys was playing with Ovechkin, and it wasn't Backstrom).

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I agree that if you do it consistently, at some point it isn't luck. However, it is difficult to say that we have seen enough to determine that it isn't luck - SOME team has to get the most hits, even if it is ENTIRELY random. It would be near impossible to determine statistically, whether or not it is luck.

Here's a real world example: If an investment manager beats the market by 5% per year, it would still take over 60 years to determine with 95% confidence, that they were doing it with skill and not luck (according to DFA).

Regardless of all that, even if it IS skill, that still isn't a strategy - every team is trying to draft well.

I still think that there is a part of development that a team has no control over, and it's not a part that can be seen. Can't miss prospects miss all the time, and many times it just comes down to something you can't really put your finger on until after.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

Washington had Backstrom. When they won the cup he had just rattled of his fifth of six straight 70+ point seasons (and he had two straight point-per-game seasons that were cut short just prior to that, a 65 point season, and prior to that two seasons of 88 and 101 points)

Backstrom doesn't get the publicity, but he was definitely elite.

(plus, the year they won, Kuznetsov had an 80+ point season. Only one of those guys was playing with Ovechkin, and it wasn't Backstrom).

If PPG = elite, then a whole lot of teams that haven't won have had elite centres.

[Groot]

It appears that there aren't any GM's on team tank anymore. Weird, considering it's such a proven path to success /s

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/642...shared_article

The landscape in the NHL is changing with long-established rebuilding clubs like the Ducks, Montreal Canadiens and Detroit Red Wings all wanting to add — and even teams further down the pecking order like the Chicago Blackhawks and San Jose Sharks wanting to get better by adding pieces as well.

“Almost everyone is looking to add or get better, pretty much,” one NHL general manager said Wednesday. “There’s almost no one purely selling.”

In a more traditional offseason, several teams would be entering a rebuilding phase, saying, “Take our veteran players off our roster” for future assets. But there really isn’t a single franchise ready to implode its roster.

Instead, it seems teams that need to get younger are looking at the fantastic re-tool the Washington Capitals pulled off over the past few years and deciding that’s the model they want to follow.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Groot

It appears that there aren't any GM's on team tank anymore. Weird, considering it's such a proven path to success /s

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/642...shared_article

Sounds like a seller's market to me.

[Erick Estrada]

Save for Detroit who simply didn't accumulate enough young talent, those teams are on the back half of their tank jobs and feel they can see light at the end of the tunnel so not overly surprising. The easy part of tanking is dismantling and trading away all your best players for assets but the hard part is having the patience and understanding of the right time to start adding players and going all in to make the playoffs. I feel the Senators are a team that was guilty of jumping the gun a few years back.