Vancouver is No Good IV: "There’s not even anything to look ahead to.”

[FireGilbert]

As much as it hurts to be a Flames fan sometimes I’m always happy I moved to Calgary as a kid and didn’t end up as a Canucks fan.

Looks like last season was a fluke and the Nucks have continued to be a prime example of how not to manage a team. Went from having some of the best centre depth in the league to some of the worst while maxing out their salary cap. Don’t have the assets for a retool and are too good to tank with Hughes in the lineup. Also are still paying OEL for another 3 seasons!

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I sincerely hope he is not. I wish nothing but the best on Philadelphia. I hope Michkov can tone down his skill to appease Rick Tocchet.

Interesting, I thought the fans loved him out there.

Who do you want?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by chummer

Interesting, I thought the fans loved him out there.

Who do you want?

It's not that I have an idea in mind. I just know I can't stomach another season of boring, poorly planned, out of date hockey.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It's not that I have an idea in mind. I just know I can't stomach another season of boring, poorly planned, out of date hockey.

I've never played hockey so I have no clue what kind of job a coach is doing.

Some people hate Huska and I think he's done a great job but like I said what do I know

[Paulie Walnuts]

This is why you don’t trade for Pettersson as some wanted. Sounds like his off ice habits suck along with going through the motions in practice.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

This is why you don’t trade for Pettersson as some wanted. Sounds like his off ice habits suck along with going through the motions in practice.

Doesn't get along with teammates or the media

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by chummer

Doesn't get along with teammates or the media

Plus he sucks in the playoffs. Good thing they are missing the playoffs for the next 7-8 years.

[jayswin]

Exit interviews between the Flames and Canucks was a huge contrast. You can feel the anger with the players in the Canucks organization, after hey were suddenly trending to contender status. Their world blew up so bad and they will likely have to rebuild again now.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

They weren't keeping Horvat and Hronek has been wonderful.

For me it was bringing in Tocchet. His mismanagement of personnel on and off the ice has directly led to a lot of this. The more we found out as the season went on just blew my mind. Him having Miller go after Pettersson to motivate him (despite them having a history) then singling out Miller for his attitude over his demeanor with Pettersson. Regularly complaining to the media that players are not doing the things he is asking them to do or are outright defying his game plan... while changing nothing with those players and then punishing young players who attempt to do different things. Trying to change Pettersson's play style to something he is obviously uncomfortable with. Demanding a large blueline even at the expense of puck movement and skating ability then creating an offensive system that plays through the back end with only two players capable of doing it because four players are big and not much else.

In the end, he was brought in by head office because he was cheap and known to them. He's everything I was worried he was going to be outside of a 6 month period from the end of his first year and February of his second year. Since then he has been the same coach he was in Tampa and Phoenix. Boring, uninspired and unprepared to coach in the modern NHL, relying on strategies and a style of play that hasn't worked since Tocchet was a player.

The team's success hinges on Pettersson, as right now the difference in this team making and missing the play-offs is his production and to a lesser extent Demko's health assuming Lankinen turns back into a pumpkin. If this team is going to be so dependent on Petey, the coach needs a plan that uses him effectively or the team needs a coach that is willing to use him effectively. Tocchet is giving massive Tortorella "Sedins need to block shots" vibes with what he is trying to do with Petey.

The expectation is Tocchet is going to be re-signed shortly, and I am just not interested in watching more of this. Losing is fine. Being boring is a cardinal sin in entertainment. Being boring and losing is going to free up a lot of season tickets, as it should. I sincerely hope they take the obvious failures from the system and personnel from this season and make adjustments but Tocchet failed to do that at every one of his stops as a head coach and I assume this will be no different.

Dependent on Petey? The Nuck's will do everything they can to trade him before that NMC kicks in.

[gvitaly]

Reading the Hughes comments makes me almost feel sorry for the Canucks, but then I remember it's the Canucks. Hopefully they'll stick around 9th-10th in the West for several more seasons.

On a seperate note: Huberdeau($10.5M until 2031, age 31-38) for Pettersson($11.6M until 2032, age 26-33), 1 for 1, who says no? It could be a great buy low option, capitalizing on a pretty good season from Huberdeau. I doubt Huberdeau would want to go to VAN though.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Reading the Hughes comments makes me almost feel sorry for the Canucks, but then I remember it's the Canucks. Hopefully they'll stick around 9th-10th in the West for several more seasons.

On a seperate note: Huberdeau($10.5M until 2031, age 31-38) for Pettersson($11.6M until 2032, age 26-33), 1 for 1, who says no? It could be a great buy low option, capitalizing on a pretty good season from Huberdeau. I doubt Huberdeau would want to go to VAN though.

I want no part of Pettersson. Would rather keep Huby.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

They weren't keeping Horvat and Hronek has been wonderful.

For me it was bringing in Tocchet. His mismanagement of personnel on and off the ice has directly led to a lot of this. The more we found out as the season went on just blew my mind. Him having Miller go after Pettersson to motivate him (despite them having a history) then singling out Miller for his attitude over his demeanor with Pettersson. Regularly complaining to the media that players are not doing the things he is asking them to do or are outright defying his game plan... while changing nothing with those players and then punishing young players who attempt to do different things. Trying to change Pettersson's play style to something he is obviously uncomfortable with. Demanding a large blueline even at the expense of puck movement and skating ability then creating an offensive system that plays through the back end with only two players capable of doing it because four players are big and not much else.

In the end, he was brought in by head office because he was cheap and known to them. He's everything I was worried he was going to be outside of a 6 month period from the end of his first year and February of his second year. Since then he has been the same coach he was in Tampa and Phoenix. Boring, uninspired and unprepared to coach in the modern NHL, relying on strategies and a style of play that hasn't worked since Tocchet was a player.

The team's success hinges on Pettersson, as right now the difference in this team making and missing the play-offs is his production and to a lesser extent Demko's health assuming Lankinen turns back into a pumpkin. If this team is going to be so dependent on Petey, the coach needs a plan that uses him effectively or the team needs a coach that is willing to use him effectively. Tocchet is giving massive Tortorella "Sedins need to block shots" vibes with what he is trying to do with Petey.

The expectation is Tocchet is going to be re-signed shortly, and I am just not interested in watching more of this. Losing is fine. Being boring is a cardinal sin in entertainment. Being boring and losing is going to free up a lot of season tickets, as it should. I sincerely hope they take the obvious failures from the system and personnel from this season and make adjustments but Tocchet failed to do that at every one of his stops as a head coach and I assume this will be no different.

Other than the cheap part, this sounds too much like the old school and mind game crap that Sutter was pulling in Calgary, with similar hatred amongst the players at the end of the season.

[WickerChicken]

If you're the Flames, you consider a trade for Pettersson if you believe he can turn things around with a change of scenery—both in terms of performance and attitude.

We’re probably not drafting high enough in the next few years to land a true #1 center, and opportunities for reclamation projects like this don’t come around often.

[GioforPM]

I like Huberdeau, but that trade would be a no brainer. Ex-Canucks tend to do well after escaping. Horvat, Tanev, Markstrom, Miller, OEL, Mikheyev.

[Erick Estrada]

I would take that deal but it's pure fantasy. Canucks would be looking at a center in return as their centers after Pettersson are Suter, Joshua, and Chytil.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by WickerChicken

If you're the Flames, you consider a trade for Pettersson if you believe he can turn things around with a change of scenery—both in terms of performance and attitude.

We’re probably not drafting high enough in the next few years to land a true #1 center, and opportunities for reclamation projects like this don’t come around often.

No thanks. He is a wet noodle with no compete.

[Slanter]

If Vancouver goes full rebuild (Hughes UFA in 2 years? Yikes), Calgary could be one of the only teams that could land Pettersen. Cap space? Yes. Picks/prospects? Yes.

I'd do it. Team needs a 1C, making a risky trade is one of the only paths available. We've seen other players blossom with a change of scenery. I think we've got the team culture to fix Pettersen.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Slanter

If Vancouver goes full rebuild (Hughes UFA in 2 years? Yikes), Calgary could be one of the only teams that could land Pettersen. Cap space? Yes. Picks/prospects? Yes.

I'd do it. Team needs a 1C, making a risky trade is one of the only paths available. We've seen other players blossom with a change of scenery. I think we've got the team culture to fix Pettersen.

We just had a really successful year where every person in the room talked about the culture.

Let's not run and grab a guy like Petterssen and take 2 steps backwards, just because he is a C. We need the right players, not $11.6M dish rags

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by troutman

No thanks. He is a wet noodle with no compete.

No thanks. He would be even worse in the playoffs. which is where we are going next year!

[Calgary4LIfe]

Flames absolutely have to build the spine of their team if there is any hope of competing in the future. Wolf - Parekh - ? They absolutely need a #1 C.


How do you get one?

• Draft your own. The higher you draft, the more likely it is you draft one. The lower you draft, the less likely. Not impossible, just much less likely.
• Sign one through UFA. Even with an overpay, you aren't going to get them here, at least not until this team looks like a winner and when the new building opens. Even then, they are not often available as UFAs.
• Trade for one. However, they almost always come with warts. Question marks about their actual ceiling, injury concerns, character issues, etc. Organizations don't like to trade #1Cs unless they have to for one reason or another.

No center taken in the mid-to-late first round has "1st Line Center" potential, at least not without some large warts. This doesn't mean that they don't exceed expectations, but that's what you have to bank on - the center prospect exceeding expectations. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.


So given that the Flames don't want to pick high, then the next best avenue is through trade. The list of #1Cs being traded is incredibly short. They are NEVER traded without some sort of wart - injury history/concerns, age, perceived character issues, etc. So, while I also share most people's concerns about Pettersson, it would be downright foolish for the Flames not to inquire (again, unless the plan is to pick high). Maybe Pettersson is broken. That's an expensive long-term commitment there. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery, and given Calgary's current culture and stability in leadership, this would prove an ideal environment for him to bounce-back with. I have no idea, but at some point, the Flames HAVE to find that #1 center to add to the spine of their team. This is the absolute most difficult position to fill on a team. You don't let one go unless you have to let one go for one reason or another, so the Flames just have to do their due-diligence as best as possible with each one that (rarely) come to market. There may not be another for a few years, and there is no guarantee that when that happens, that player will be willing to come to Calgary, or perhaps has even more warts.



I would be both very excited and very worried if the Flames entered into talks with Vancouver right now. I doubt it will happen - I assume he has a NTC with the Flames and would probably want to get far away from Vancouver, and I am sure Vancouver wouldn't love sending him to the Flames, but the Flames could clear up a lot of cap room for them. Damn interesting anyway (and yes, damn scary too).