The Tariff Thread

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I did post an argument, along with Opendoor. You could have considered those things, even proposed solutions. But it seems you just want to be angry and open up the market to American profiteers.

Your problem is you have binary thinking. You think giving the Americans (or any other country) the ability to sell into Canada without being hit by 400% tariffs equals selling our souls in the name of profit and greed.

But funny how we buy tons (literal tons) of food products from other countries and it works just fine.

Supply management has nothing to do with regulations. We can keep regulations and still open up the market. And we also don't have to open up the entire market. Giving the world 10% more access would likely lower prices but not kill our existing dairy industry.

It is amusing how you bitch and whine about American profiteers, but have no issue with the companies and entities in Canada that literally screw over Canadian consumers daily with outrageous food prices.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why subsidize and protect the dairy industry and not others? Genuine question.

I work in manufacturing and we don't get subsidies. We have to compete with American companies, but I don't think those American companies are 'profiteering' off Canadian customers because genuine competition exists.

I'd rather see genuine competition in the dairy industry to reduce the insane waste and inefficiencies, and ultimately lower prices for consumers.

We subsidize and protect all sorts of industries. I'd support import tariffs to level the landscape for manufacturing against the worst countries out there, as I don't believe the competition is genuine. China clearly subsidizes their economy. Trade agreements can deal with these inequities. And as mentioned the US subsidizes their farmers in different ways. So if we got rid of our system, we'd be even worse off competing. It wouldn't be genuine.


As for lower prices for consumers, as has been shown, it isn't true in the US, so why woudl it here?


And you say "insane waste and inefficiencies" and while I can probably assume they aren't perfect, this sounds like an exaggeration. But why not make minor changes to fix those things, vs throwing it out?

[woob]

I guess he's going to tariff "Canadian vehicles" at up to 100% now?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It’s not a fair competition as US agriculture is heavily subsidized ranging from direct payments to cheap crop insurance and it extends into the dairy sector as well. Milk dumping happens in the US as well and there are also systems in place to support minimum pricing. So your baseline is competition against subsidized farms.

At the same time the potato growers of Canada, who routinely sell into the US, have no issue competing. In fact potato growing and processing is a fast growing sector into the Canadian agriculture market, with processing plants being built & expanded upon in Manitoba & Alberta. Most of their production goes south.

You have a good point though, the US doesn't play fair, but I suspect a lot of that will change with the Trump administration.

Corn subsidies as an example are ridiculous and need to be shut down.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Azure

At the same time the potato growers of Canada, who routinely sell into the US, have no issue competing. In fact potato growing and processing is a fast growing sector into the Canadian agriculture market, with processing plants being built & expanded upon in Manitoba & Alberta. Most of their production goes south.

You have a good point though, the US doesn't play fair, but I suspect a lot of that will change with the Trump administration.

Corn subsidies as an example are ridiculous and need to be shut down.

You can’t apply the dynamics of the potato sector to the dairy sector and call it good enough. They are the not the same and have different supply and demand factors at play.

You are also dreaming if you think Trump is going to end subsidies. He will increase them as China goes after US agriculture in the trade war 2.0. He did it the first time around and will do it again. The Republicans cannot politically afford to put farms out of business.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Azure

At the same time the potato growers of Canada, who routinely sell into the US, have no issue competing. In fact potato growing and processing is a fast growing sector into the Canadian agriculture market, with processing plants being built & expanded upon in Manitoba & Alberta. Most of their production goes south.

You have a good point though, the US doesn't play fair, but I suspect a lot of that will change with the Trump administration.

Corn subsidies as an example are ridiculous and need to be shut down.

Can confirm. Half of the produce I eat is actually from Canada, from greenhouses in the Windsor area or Potatos from Alberta:

https://www.littlepotatoes.com/

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bonded

You can’t apply the dynamics of the potato sector to the dairy sector and call it good enough. They are the not the same and have different supply and demand factors at play.

You are also dreaming if you think Trump is going to end subsidies. He will increase them as China goes after US agriculture in the trade war 2.0. He did it the first time around and will do it again. The Republicans cannot politically afford to put farms out of business.

I never said he will end subsidies.

But I would suspect that things will change with how corn is farmed and subsidized in the US.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Can confirm. Half of the produce I eat is actually from Canada, from greenhouses in the Windsor area or Potatos from Alberta:

https://www.littlepotatoes.com/

Potato growers work with very stringent oversight from whoever they have contracts with, and do just fine competing in the broader North American market. There is no reason the dairy industry can't do the same.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

You guys complaining about milk at $6 per gallon have it good. We have been buying the A2 milk for a few years now because it is apparently easier for my kids to digest and causes fewer gut issues. That #### is $7.50 for two litres though. Also, my kids love cereal so they go through a lot of milk.

We have been drinking Natrel lactose free. I am a milk connoisseur and I think it’s better than lactose. Lactose free used to be vile sugar water. But this stuff is the bomb. Previous milk hating kids like it and drink too much the but ho try snakes poos are way less.

[Fuzz]

I find lactose free to taste sweeter. And of course it costs more.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by fotze2

We have been drinking Natrel lactose free. I am a milk connoisseur and I think it’s better than lactose. Lactose free used to be vile sugar water. But this stuff is the bomb. Previous milk hating kids like it and drink too much the but ho try snakes poos are way less.

Tastes like straight up milk now and lasts forever

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I find lactose free to taste sweeter. And of course it costs more.

They changed something a few months ago and I agree. Gross, but now they have the protein one that I think tastes like the previous. I think they are f’ing around with stuff. Was very disappointed when it got grossly sweet. Try the protein one. Also, I don’t want to know what is going on behind the scenes. Haha. Try the gizzy one.

[Faust]

@the_jimmy_says

Stephen Harper is the very conservative former Prime Minister of Canada.

I don't think I've ever agreed with Harper on anything, but here he's spot-on:

"President Trump, US Lawmakers, and citizens of the United States. We stand here today to deliver a clear message. We will not be bullied.#

We are prepared to stop exports of all Canadian products, materials and energy to the United States until and unless the threat of tariffs is removed, and the President agrees to abide by the terms of the trade agreement his administration negotiated.#

Your farmers need fertiliser made from Potash from Saskatchewan. Your refineries need Oil from Alberta. Your Eastern Seaboard needs electricity generated from the hydroelectric power plants in Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador. Your auto industry needs auto parts from Ontario. Your construction industry needs lumber from British Colombia. And countless industries need Canadian Steel and Aluminum.

We do not want to become the 51st state. We do want to continue the alliance and friendship that has endured between our countries for over a century.#

So Americans, tell your representatives and senators to put a stop to this nonsense.#

And Mr. Trump, you may not think you need Canada, but you do. And we need you. Both countries are better when we work together. Your move."

https://x.com/the_jimmy_says/status/...922582439?s=61

[Fuzz]

Harper throwing Alberta oil under the bus!

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Your problem is you have binary thinking. You think giving the Americans (or any other country) the ability to sell into Canada without being hit by 400% tariffs equals selling our souls in the name of profit and greed.

But funny how we buy tons (literal tons) of food products from other countries and it works just fine.

Supply management has nothing to do with regulations. We can keep regulations and still open up the market. And we also don't have to open up the entire market. Giving the world 10% more access would likely lower prices but not kill our existing dairy industry.

It is amusing how you bitch and whine about American profiteers, but have no issue with the companies and entities in Canada that literally screw over Canadian consumers daily with outrageous food prices.

Dairy is pretty unique in how heavily it's subsidized in most other countries though. You can't let dairy from subsidized nations come into Canada (where we don't subsidize) tariff free and expect to retain a domestic industry.

What would likely work is Canada ditching supply management and then subsidizing dairy producers like the US and most European nations do, but that means raising taxes to pay for it. And it's probably not likely to breed efficiency any more than supply management does.

Some countries manage to avoid subsidizing while having strong dairy industries (New Zealand and Australia are a couple of examples), but they're generally more geographically isolated so they're not really a destination for other nations' exports. And they tend to have higher retail milk prices than Canada does, so they're not any further ahead from a consumer standpoint.

[direwolf]

Sounds like this next round of tariffs from the U.S. on March 4th will be cumulative. So I guess the steel & aluminum tariffs will go up to 50%?

Seriously, F*** these arseholes. This clown show administration needs to be taught a lesson from the rest of the world. They want to be all isolationist and go it alone? Fine. Let them. The rest of us across the globe can hopefully find ways to work together to strengthen our trade relationships with each other, cut the U.S. off completely, and move forward without them.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/white-...iffs-1.7456590

The White House said Tuesday that should all its trade actions take effect in March, it would indeed pile tariff on top of tariff, to reach the larger number of 50 per cent on some items.

At the moment, the U.S. is threatening two actions: a worldwide tariff of 25 per cent on steel and aluminum starting March 12, and it has also paused, until March 4, the threat of an economy-wide 25 per cent tariff on Canada and Mexico while it works on border-security deals with both countries.

Meanwhile, U.S. President Donald Trump is threatening even more tariffs for a variety of reasons, including on automobiles. These threats, taken together, hint at a penalty so eye-watering that it will inevitably fuel speculation about just how much of this is real and how much is intended as negotiating leverage for Trump.

The U.S. is deeply reliant on Canadian aluminum, in particular, and critics of the tariffs argue they will merely punish U.S. companies importing a product they will need for the foreseeable future.

Peter Navarro said U.S. aluminum mills are operating at roughly half-capacity, while Canada's are busily humming at near-total capacity. This action is designed to rebalance that.

"The [U.S.] steel industry's on its knees. Aluminum's flat on its back," Navarro told Fox News.

"The president says no more country exemptions. No more product exclusions."
It's not just Chinese and Russian overproduction hurting U.S. mills, according to Navarro. "It's all of our friends and allies we gave special treatment to. And instead of abiding by the rules of that, they abused them."

He mentioned Brazil, Japan and Australia specifically. When the Fox News interviewer brought up Canada, Navarro began complaining about Canadian government investments to upgrade an old ArcelorMittal Dofasco steel facility in Hamilton, saying it gave the Canadian producer an advantage.

"Why are you flooding our markets," Navarro said. "We need a strong defence industry, not just to protect the United States but allies like Canada."

[Fuzz]

Meanwhile, U.S. President Donald Trump is threatening even more tariffs for a variety of reasons, including on automobiles. These threats, taken together, hint at a penalty so eye-watering that it will inevitably fuel speculation about just how much of this is real and how much is intended as negotiating leverage for Trump.

Oh look, trying to appease the irrational orange ape didn't work. Shock and surprise. #### you, America. #### you long and hard.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Oh look, trying to appease the irrational orange ape didn't work. Shock and surprise. #### you, America. #### you long and hard.

It’s just a bluff dude. A joke. A ruse. A subterfuge. A contrivance. A game of chess in the 4th dimension! What does this wily master of manipulation truly want? Why, the only way to find out is to play the game, so play the game we must! Let us begin!

Or blah blah blah something stupid like that.

[Drak]

Be a real shame if Trump was removed from the checkers board.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Faust

@the_jimmy_says

Stephen Harper is the very conservative former Prime Minister of Canada.

I don't think I've ever agreed with Harper on anything, but here he's spot-on:

"President Trump, US Lawmakers, and citizens of the United States. We stand here today to deliver a clear message. We will not be bullied.#

We are prepared to stop exports of all Canadian products, materials and energy to the United States until and unless the threat of tariffs is removed, and the President agrees to abide by the terms of the trade agreement his administration negotiated.#

Your farmers need fertiliser made from Potash from Saskatchewan. Your refineries need Oil from Alberta. Your Eastern Seaboard needs electricity generated from the hydroelectric power plants in Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador. Your auto industry needs auto parts from Ontario. Your construction industry needs lumber from British Colombia. And countless industries need Canadian Steel and Aluminum.

We do not want to become the 51st state. We do want to continue the alliance and friendship that has endured between our countries for over a century.#

So Americans, tell your representatives and senators to put a stop to this nonsense.#

And Mr. Trump, you may not think you need Canada, but you do. And we need you. Both countries are better when we work together. Your move."

https://x.com/the_jimmy_says/status/...922582439?s=61

Weird how the internet works.

Harper did not say that. That isn't a Harper quote. That was a comment made by a redditor who said "Canada should say something like this" on a post about Harper. Obviously well done, and someone took it and ran with it, attributing it to Stevey boy.

Funny internet sometimes.

Here is his actual quote from Toronto Star

“And if I was still prime minister, I would be prepared to impoverish the country and not be annexed, if that was the option we’re facing,” the Conservative Party of Canada co-founder said to applause Tuesday, according to the Toronto Star.

“Now, because I do think that if Trump were determined, he could really do wide structural and economic damage, but I wouldn’t accept that. I would accept any level of damage to preserve the independence of the country.”