Major Water Main Break in Bowness Area

[chemgear]

There will be a bunch of storms during the Stampede too. Should be amusing to see how this will go over during the usual divorce boozefest.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Without being an expert, I guess I'd suspect they worry repressurizing would be enough to cause more failures. Often a system restart is the highest stress. Who knows how bad these other sections are.

They very well could be thinking that doing their two recent shutdown tests of this line, in preparation for a December 2024 shutdown to do an inspection, may have caused premature failure of the wires. Doing that all again with 5 known weak spots could very well result in another unplanned shutdown and restart of the entire process, wasting time.

[V]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Stop being a conspiracy theorist and questioning government. You must be a total ####ing idiot. Governments have it under control and all questions are stupid because questioning what the government in power here does is stupid because they are the smartest and the best. Stop questioning, you’re an idiot and a conspiracy theorist.

That’s a little harsh and unnecessary. You should try to be a bit more balanced.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You can see there are several lines that seem to connect. I just assume it's a lot more complicated than looknig at something like they may have reversed flow directions on some(? no idea), and there are also all the storage cisterns that complicate the picture. That's why I was wondering if an expert has said that, or it's just based on assumptions.

If there are interconnections, they're probably not that large. Otherwise they would be able to push more water through those systems to bypass the broken main.

In the water pressure zone map, they USE color coding to show how different areas are connected. The NW quadrant uses another main that goes directly east out of Bearspaw:

https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...e-zone-map.pdf

Spoiler!

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I wonder if some of the other weak spots they need to get to are in challenging locations? Seems like 5 repairs shouldn't take much longer than one, and I know 1 is ahead of the others, but they should all be able to be worked on at the same time, right?

I heard from a friend who works for the city that all main pipes are in easily accessible locations. They don't allow anything being built on top of main pipes.

I know I heard earlier that someone mention it may be under the Safeway but apparently that's not true.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Some people do run their dishwasher every day. I've seen it with my own eyes many times. It's bizarre.

I, like other intelligent people, wait until mine is over capacity.

Our dishwasher is full every day, so we run it every day.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

For sure, sorry boss, shouldn’t have questioned anything. Sorry. I’m so sorry. Everyone is dumb for questioning the government and they have an amazing track record. They’re the best.

What’s the track record? Give some examples. You said we should question everything based on the track record, so lay out the track record. You know better than everyone never to trust the government, so let us in on the secret. Name one example.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Stop being a conspiracy theorist and questioning government. You must be a total ####ing idiot. Governments have it under control and all questions are stupid because questioning what the government in power here does is stupid because they are the smartest and the best. Stop questioning, you’re an idiot and a conspiracy theorist.

JFC dude. Your beef should be with the government/water dept 50 years ago that installed these. However, at the time they were told they would last 100 years, so can you fault them?

Crap happens. In your mind, what exactly is the current government doing wrong that you feel needs to be questioned.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What’s the track record? Give some examples. You said we should question everything based on the track record, so lay out the track record. You know better than everyone never to trust the government, so let us in on the secret. Name one example.

I can think of one. Flood 2013. As much as we all celebrate the Calgarians that came out full force and Nenshi doing press releases, for me with a flooded basement not in a rich community it was a cluster from all levels of government.

What saved damage from being much worse was taking charge myself. Buying my own equipment. People on my street mapping out the sewers ourself.

Government is just incapable of handling problems like this. For all the DR plans it goes to heck fairly quick.

Its no wonder people just say eff it and horde. There is no plan, and if there is, the people executing it likely go off script or are incompetent

[soreshins]

I’m not familiar at all with the Calgary water supply system but I do have some experience in this general area. There are many reasons why the city can’t just easily re-organize the system a) there is sediment in the pipes that will be stimulated with a change in flow direction or velocity that would lead to water quality issues b) there are pressure management zones which might not be easily reconfigured and overloading other pipelines could lead to a slew of further problems c) de-pressuring pipelines can lead to backlow of contaminants into the pipe and generate further water quality issues.

The city will have to repair the pipe sections, swab the pipe to get rid of any debris, then charge it up to full pressure and do a pressure test, and then chlorinate the pipe and test water samples to make sure it is safe to consume. It all depends on length and pipe diameter but I would guess that filling the main would take at least a full day probably longer, then you have time for swabbing - let’s say another 2 days, then the pressure test which is usually over 48 hours, and then the chlorination which is another couple of days for chlorine contact time. So that whole process could take well over a week in itself never mind the actual time to excavate and carry out the localized repairs.

So that will be one of the reasons that they want to do all repairs now as going back in later would mean having to repeat all of that, never mind the risk that these poor condition areas might fail in the meantime.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I’m not sure I agree with this 3-5 week proactive replacement plan.

Why can’t we just get the system up and running, excavate those weak spot location, and procure and stage new pipe in case it breaks. Then either just fix it if something actually breaks or planfully do it in the fall when water consumption is naturally lower?

Seems we’re taking a for sure outage during peak demand to avoid a maybe outage.

This is an interesting question.

It really depends on the probability of failure on this. Assuming the cause is the high tensioned cable snapping and you can have x number of cables snap per meter without catostophic failure and assuming you can reliably predict that failure point (which you likely can’t). What would be your replacement criteria?

If the line fails after you fill it you now need to locate the leak and drain the system again, and flush the system again before you start up. So if you don’t catch the future failure you add 10-14 days of unplanned outage.

Now if they are sitting waiting for parts I’d probably agree with you but if these are continuous work fronts then it likely makes sense to do them now if you think there is a 10% chance of failure in the next year.

It’s got to be an uncomfortable answer for the Engineer providing this information as they are being asked what is the minimum number we can repair and have reliable operation until the next planned outage.

You will also hydro test this system at or above design pressure which is going to put the legacy system under more stress than its seen since installation. So if you have marginal areas you may find out very quickly and have just wasted days filling and draining.

I think that we can be confident that these things are being considered

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I can think of one. Flood 2013. As much as we all celebrate the Calgarians that came out full force and Nenshi doing press releases, for me with a flooded basement not in a rich community it was a cluster from all levels of government.

What saved damage from being much worse was taking charge myself. Buying my own equipment. People on my street mapping out the sewers ourself.

Government is just incapable of handling problems like this. For all the DR plans it goes to heck fairly quick.

Its no wonder people just say eff it and horde. There is no plan, and if there is, the people executing it likely go off script or are incompetent

lol, you blame the government because you bought a house on a flood plain? That explains so much to me about all those neighbourhoods along the river that make me scratch my head. I could never relax owning one of those, but in your mind your basement flooding is an example of how dumb the government is? Mind = blown.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol, you blame the government because you bought a house on a flood plain? That explains so much to me about all those neighbourhoods along the river that make me scratch my head. I could never relax owning one of those, but in your mind your basement flooding is an example of how dumb the government is? Mind = blown.

The government didn't have water pumps for every house in Calgary on standby, so clearly that's a massive failure. What do we even pay taxes for?

[BlackArcher101]

Per news conference:

- 3 pipe segments are in Calgary, 2 have been sourced from the USA and should be here mid next week.
- Survey crews locating those hot spots on the surface and doing surface surveys to allow for excavation plans, should be completed next couple of days
- the remaining 300m to be inspected still not yet complete due to more water remaining than expected
- looks like the 5 hotspots are between the current break and shaganappi pump station (this means along 16ave with easy access)
- still estimating 3-5 weeks
- overland temporary piping being investigated (from my experience, this would be difficult to maintain potable water rating while at the same time be quick)
- On question on who's accountable for this, a forensic report regarding the piping will be made available to the public when completed

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by chemgear

There will be a bunch of storms during the Stampede too. Should be amusing to see how this will go over during the usual divorce boozefest.

So that's what happened

'Monkey paw, I hope it's not too wet for Stampede this year'

[BlackArcher101]

Looking at that length of pipe, from the current break it goes underneath 16ave and follows it, then as 16th curves west, it passes to the south of it and follows the bow river pathway then goes under Montgomery View until it passes Angle Cafe where it then follows the pathway again.

Depending where the hot spots are, looks like potential for a lot of disruption, and a few homes there on montgomery to be cut off.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by soreshins

I’m not familiar at all with the Calgary water supply system but I do have some experience in this general area. There are many reasons why the city can’t just easily re-organize the system a) there is sediment in the pipes that will be stimulated with a change in flow direction or velocity that would lead to water quality issues b) there are pressure management zones which might not be easily reconfigured and overloading other pipelines could lead to a slew of further problems c) de-pressuring pipelines can lead to backlow of contaminants into the pipe and generate further water quality issues.

The city will have to repair the pipe sections, swab the pipe to get rid of any debris, then charge it up to full pressure and do a pressure test, and then chlorinate the pipe and test water samples to make sure it is safe to consume. It all depends on length and pipe diameter but I would guess that filling the main would take at least a full day probably longer, then you have time for swabbing - let’s say another 2 days, then the pressure test which is usually over 48 hours, and then the chlorination which is another couple of days for chlorine contact time. So that whole process could take well over a week in itself never mind the actual time to excavate and carry out the localized repairs.

So that will be one of the reasons that they want to do all repairs now as going back in later would mean having to repeat all of that, never mind the risk that these poor condition areas might fail in the meantime.

You should probably get down there and let those city workers know these details. I've been let to believe they don't know anything.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

They very well could be thinking that doing their two recent shutdown tests of this line, in preparation for a December 2024 shutdown to do an inspection, may have caused premature failure of the wires. Doing that all again with 5 known weak spots could very well result in another unplanned shutdown and restart of the entire process, wasting time.

What is a shut down test? I assume you can’t pressure test these lines.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by fotze2

What is a shut down test? I assume you can’t pressure test these lines.

Not entirely sure in this case, but I imagine closing the line off to test procedures on using the remaining system and see what it could handle (compare to modelling) and test the procedure on restarting the line. In reality probably helped a lot to prepare them for this unplanned break. Website just says the following:

Several test shutdowns were undertaken in the winter of 2023 and spring 2024 in preparation for a full condition assessment planned for December 2024.

[GGG]

You look at things like that and you see how close the city was to this being a complete non-issue that no one would have known about. It gets to December water use is low the system can make up the supply we have some excavations being done and some traffic diverted and no one ever under stands what the city avoided. Instead they are 6 months late with the plan and we all get to be water experts.