2022-23 Flu/covid/RSV season

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Were immigrants the problem when I experienced the exact same ####ing problems 13 years ago that had the same solutions then as we still have today...and haven't done? Because we desperately need to expand elder care, and you know who we probably need for that part of it? Immigrant workers. I'm not saying high levels of immigration are not causing problems, I do disagree with the current levels. But to suggest it's a main contributor is to ignore that we've ignored these problems for decades.

13 years ago the problem was less worse.

3 years ago the problem was less worse.

Its not even just immigration, but the type of immigration. We are not allowing nurses to immigrate to Canada despite desperately needing nurses, but low level workers that are not a net contributor to the welfare system because they don't fill important or critical jobs, and need financial support. Many of those immigrants are being brought in on low-wage programs because companies are greedy. The government has been complicit in allowing this to happen.

We are not a serious country who is interested in securing our future. When every government in ALL provinces create the same mess year after year, please don't tell me that we need to keep doing the same thing over and over again hoping things turn out different.

For years we weren't even able to fix the 3rd world conditions our Native population lives in, and now the Feds seem intent on just blowing everything up by bringing in more people that make the problem worse. Might not be politically correct to admit it, but this is the reality of what we live in because of terrible policies.

At the very least immigration needs to be reduced at least by 75% until we can sort out some of these issues. But instead we'll bicker about this that and the other thing for the next few years while everything keeps getting worse.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Has anyone else completely stopped getting sick after having very strong reactions to COVID shots. With the second COVID shots and boosters, I had a 104+ fever for over twelve hours, while my muscles were contracting, and teeth chattering and it was a bit scary the first time, and then I knew what to expect. I haven't even had a single minor cold since that second shot in mid 2021 and have been around plenty of sick people during that time. I'm usually good for at least a couple cold or whatever a year. Is it possible for these mRNA vaccines to supercharge your immune system to fight off more than just covid, or just weird coincidence?

Do you have kids?

I am fully vaccinated as are my kids, but they are good for 2-3 colds a year for the household

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Oh you poor poor victims.

For the record, I'm not in the anti-mRNA crowd. I just find it amusing how worked up people get when someone questions the policies of the last few years and the repeated 'get ya booster!' spiel when everyone looks around and sees both unboostered and boostered getting sick or not sick.

Personally I find it refreshing to see people say that their personal health choices are likely a big reason why they don't get sick when it was just ignored the last 3 years.

What you eat, exercise, supplements, etc, etc.....all more important in the long-run than booster number 5,531. But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by Azure

For the record, I'm not in the anti-mRNA crowd. I just find it amusing how worked up people get when someone questions the policies of the last few years and the repeated 'get ya booster!' spiel when everyone looks around and sees both unboostered and boostered getting sick or not sick.

Personally I find it refreshing to see people say that their personal health choices are likely a big reason why they don't get sick when it was just ignored the last 3 years.

What you eat, exercise, supplements, etc, etc.....all more important in the long-run than booster number 5,531. But hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

Agree 100 percent. Nothing but respect for you in saying that reading what you've gone through the past year or so.

----------
Personally, both the anti vaccine and pro vaccine have made this an us vs. Them situation. I don't remember these types of debates with the flu vaccine every year. Personal choices need to be respected and people need to be respected. You got it? Good. You didn't? Alright. You choose white, I choose black, we should still be able to be civil to one another.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

13 years ago the problem was less worse.

3 years ago the problem was less worse.

Its not even just immigration, but the type of immigration. We are not allowing nurses to immigrate to Canada despite desperately needing nurses, but low level workers that are not a net contributor to the welfare system because they don't fill important or critical jobs, and need financial support. Many of those immigrants are being brought in on low-wage programs because companies are greedy. The government has been complicit in allowing this to happen.

We are not a serious country who is interested in securing our future. When every government in ALL provinces create the same mess year after year, please don't tell me that we need to keep doing the same thing over and over again hoping things turn out different.

For years we weren't even able to fix the 3rd world conditions our Native population lives in, and now the Feds seem intent on just blowing everything up by bringing in more people that make the problem worse. Might not be politically correct to admit it, but this is the reality of what we live in because of terrible policies.

At the very least immigration needs to be reduced at least by 75% until we can sort out some of these issues. But instead we'll bicker about this that and the other thing for the next few years while everything keeps getting worse.

I have never advocated doing the same nothing over and over, it's the Conservative/WR/UCP politicians and voters who doom us to that.

[flamesfever]

Now that we are beyond the pandemic stage, I think I see some positives starting to happen in our health care system.

1. Access to data. Through technology, my bloodwork and test results have been available within a day or two.

2. Finding a new doctor. My GP moved on to another job, and I managed to find a new doctor, much closer to where I live, within a very short period of time.

3. Collaborative teamwork. My experience, and others who I have corresponded with, suggests that we have the best Cardiac Unit at the Foothills Hospital in all of Canada.

4. Wait times. My son was in and out of emergency in 3 hours the other day, and raves about the treatment he received.

I get the feeling that, in spite of all the negative criticism, much of it related to political bias, we are beginning to see some light after the dark days of the pandemic.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Now that we are beyond the pandemic stage, I think I see some positives starting to happen in our health care system.

1. Access to data. Through technology, my bloodwork and test results have been available within a day or two.

2. Finding a new doctor. My GP moved on to another job, and I managed to find a new doctor, much closer to where I live, within a very short period of time.

3. Collaborative teamwork. My experience, and others who I have corresponded with, suggests that we have the best Cardiac Unit at the Foothills Hospital in all of Canada.

4. Wait times. My son was in and out of emergency in 3 hours the other day, and raves about the treatment he received.

I get the feeling that, in spite of all the negative criticism, much of it related to political bias, we are beginning to see some light after the dark days of the pandemic.

LOL, OK well my anecdotal evidence counters yours, and it's been pretty much hell trying to get services in a reasonable amount of time, and has caused a lot of hardship, loss of income(and taxes paid!), and increased reliance on other expensive services when much cheaper alternatives, if available sooner, would have resulted in better outcomes and reduced cost to the system. Maybe if we just had access to a naturopath...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

4. Wait times. My son was in and out of emergency in 3 hours the other day, and raves about the treatment he received.

This could be because he was in pediatric care.

I took my son to the South Hospital in July when he his head was smashed open.

The posted wait time for adults was 4hrs, but because he is 17 he got into pediatrics.

We were maybe, 2hrs, but a big chunk of that was blood loss control and freezing.

It was super fast and quick considering the size of the hole in his head.

Adult wait time suck

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

This could be because he was in pediatric care.

I took my son to the South Hospital in July when he his head was smashed open.

The posted wait time for adults was 4hrs, but because he is 17 he got into pediatrics.

We were maybe, 2hrs, but a big chunk of that was blood loss control and freezing.

It was super fast and quick considering the size of the hole in his head.

Adult wait time suck

This is ageism! Children have more time left on this planet! They can afford to wait!

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

But not yet rolled out.



So the anecdote of "its rare to get myocarditis" or other adverse ailments from mRNA vaccines must only apply to covid shots from the last couple of years.



Not a long time frame to build long term data sets to be making conclusive statements on effects such as myocarditis.

Myocarditis is a) an acute event, not a long term side effect, and b) with billions of doses given the statistics are extremely easy to track and tell us it's rare.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I have never advocated doing the same nothing over and over, it's the Conservative/WR/UCP politicians and voters who doom us to that.

I think its more than just the Conservative politicians.

Right now in Manitoba we have a NDP government who has a refreshing perspective on health care after the PC disaster the last few years. I have no issues admitting that, because I try not to have dogmatic political leanings.

But lets no kid ourselves, the previous PC government in Manitoba inherited a mess from the previous to their NDP government. Sure it wasn't AS bad as it is now, but public health in my province is just a continuation from one government to the next regardless of what party is in power.

And I think you can find similar situations in all provinces. Yes, some governments do some things better, but none of them create permanent change. For AHS gets created, then it gets shut down. Its just a viscous cycle that will be repeated forever because what Cliff said is 100% correct.

The right hates increasing taxes to pay for stuff.
The left hates the idea of a two-tier system.

But I think another big issue right now is that fact that we are wasting ridiculous amounts of money on things that are pointless. Hard to sell more taxes to someone when people see the stupidly bloated government budget with no attempt to cut spending.

To me it comes back to not being a serious country. Canadians play in the shadow of our American friends and act all superior because of our health care system, but that attitude has only led to the ruin of our own system.

Its like the frog boiling story. We didn't realize that the heat was being turned up gradually over the years, and now we have what is basically a giant disaster, and we can't even agree on how to start solving it.

And this isn't me and you agreeing on how to solve it Fuzz. I'm 100% sure we would agree on a lot of the same things. Start somewhere and start changing things. Make decisions, etc. Start with the obvious ones. Like immigration. Like funding. Like not just repeal AHS for the sake of repealing AHS just to prove a point.

[Fuzz]

My point is the mere existence of modern Conservative parties these days precludes the option of raising taxes to pay for services. Conservatives will never do it, and they've made it so toxic to the electorate that no other parties can even mention it without being pilfered with adds about the opponent raising YOUR taxes(even when they don't - see our last provincial election) and it works so well it'll even get a brain dead moron like Smith elected when she should, in no uncertain terms, be anywhere near a position of power. And now look what she has planned to "fix" our system.


So we need more taxes, but it is politically impossible to do that because of years of Conservative messaging. I stand by my point.

[Azure]

And I could say the idea of a two tier system is also impossible because of years of rhetoric from the left.

Maybe the government in charge should manage their funds properly, because right now I will not vote for anyone who increases taxes but has no plan to cut wasteful spending.

Spend, spend, spend is driving inflation as well which is also a long-term negative for the health care system, as the cost of medical supplies has skyrocketed.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is ageism! Children have more time left on this planet! They can afford to wait!

Children are our future though and we can't risk any potential negative impact on their lives. They deserve treatment above everyone else. Old guys like you and I have contributed everything we can already and we're just a drag on society so we can be put out to pasture.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

And I could say the idea of a two tier system is also impossible because of years of rhetoric from the left.

Maybe the government in charge should manage their funds properly, because right now I will not vote for anyone who increases taxes but has no plan to cut wasteful spending.

Spend, spend, spend is driving inflation as well which is also a long-term negative for the health care system, as the cost of medical supplies has skyrocketed.

Well good news then, you don't ever have to worry about that. Congrats on lining up on the side of the problem.

Also, your first sentence claim is nonsense, because we already have plenty of private providers. The only time they get in trouble is when they promise faster access in the public system.

In fact, everything in your post is appealing to the Conservative standard of ignoring facts of what you fee is the issue. "Inflation is the issue caused by government spending making healthcare unaffordable." Well, of controlling inflation fixed healthcare, that theory would have played out over the past 20 years. So nice try, but that's just not proven to be reality.


Sorry, but voters who think like you are exactly the problem and why no progress ever gets made.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Azure

And I could say the idea of a two tier system is also impossible because of years of rhetoric from the left.

Maybe the government in charge should manage their funds properly, because right now I will not vote for anyone who increases taxes but has no plan to cut wasteful spending.

Spend, spend, spend is driving inflation as well which is also a long-term negative for the health care system, as the cost of medical supplies has skyrocketed.

Years of facts from the left.

There are a limited number of healthcare workers. If we remove some from the public system then rich people will get better care than people of lesser financial means. The only people who would want that are selfish. Not selfish in the colloquial sense where you'd kind of lob that as an insult, but selfish in the sober and objective definition of the word.

To think my health is more important and my ills can be addressed better and faster than someone with less money is an absolutely untenable stance to me. It's abhorrent.

Healthcare workers moving from the public sector to the private sector would make the public system even worse. People advocating for that are horrible people and terrible community members. Let's bolster the public system so it stays communal and fair.

The wealthy should be insentivised to put more money into public healthcare if they want better services. Private healthcare should be illegal. If you want better healthcare and don't mind paying more for it, then why wouldn't you advocate for higher taxes so healthcare is better for all? That's what I think we should do. I'm not going to walk by a waiting room of suffering people on my way to a VIP clinic where I get superior healthcare. I wouldn't want to live with myself if that was the type of guy I was. I would literally rather die than take away services from other people so they suffer because I paid a doctor to look at me first.

I'm also bothered when I read people in this thread supporting a two-tiered system based on their own ignorance. Pylon, you didn't fricken get a heart condition from a vaccine. Sorry, but you just didn't. You're not a scientist. You're a 50-year-old dude and you are going to encounter more and more health issues as you age (we all are). The vaccine is safe and there is all the evidence in the world to support that statement.

But somebody has to help me with this: how much are you guys in favour of a two-tiered system willing to pay per year to have better healthcare than your fellow Albertans? Like, if we can put a number on that and maybe figure out what it is as a percentage of your salary, maybe we get to a palatable number that could be considered as a tax increase for everyone to be put towards better healthcare for all. If it's 1‰ or 3‰...whatever it might be...let's do it. Let's pay more tax so we can all take care of each other.

[BowRiverBruinsRule]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Years of facts from the left.

There are a limited number of healthcare workers. If we remove some from the public system then rich people will get better care than people of lesser financial means. The only people who would want that are selfish. Not selfish in the colloquial sense where you'd kind of lob that as an insult, but selfish in the sober and objective definition of the word.

To think my health is more important and my ills can be addressed better and faster than someone with less money is an absolutely untenable stance to me. It's abhorrent.

Healthcare workers moving from the public sector to the private sector would make the public system even worse. People advocating for that are horrible people and terrible community members. Let's bolster the public system so it stays communal and fair.

The wealthy should be insentivised to put more money into public healthcare if they want better services. Private healthcare should be illegal. If you want better healthcare and don't mind paying more for it, then why wouldn't you advocate for higher taxes so healthcare is better for all? That's what I think we should do. I'm not going to walk by a waiting room of suffering people on my way to a VIP clinic where I get superior healthcare. I wouldn't want to live with myself if that was the type of guy I was. I would literally rather die than take away services from other people so they suffer because I paid a doctor to look at me first.

I'm also bothered when I read people in this thread supporting a two-tiered system based on their own ignorance. Pylon, you didn't fricken get a heart condition from a vaccine. Sorry, but you just didn't. You're not a scientist. You're a 50-year-old dude and you are going to encounter more and more health issues as you age (we all are). The vaccine is safe and there is all the evidence in the world to support that statement.

But somebody has to help me with this: how much are you guys in favour of a two-tiered system willing to pay per year to have better healthcare than your fellow Albertans? Like, if we can put a number on that and maybe figure out what it is as a percentage of your salary, maybe we get to a palatable number that could be considered as a tax increase for everyone to be put towards better healthcare for all. If it's 1‰ or 3‰...whatever it might be...let's do it. Let's pay more tax so we can all take care of each other.

Well said. You are a good person.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Years of facts from the left.

There are a limited number of healthcare workers. If we remove some from the public system then rich people will get better care than people of lesser financial means. The only people who would want that are selfish. Not selfish in the colloquial sense where you'd kind of lob that as an insult, but selfish in the sober and objective definition of the word.

To think my health is more important and my ills can be addressed better and faster than someone with less money is an absolutely untenable stance to me. It's abhorrent.

Healthcare workers moving from the public sector to the private sector would make the public system even worse. People advocating for that are horrible people and terrible community members. Let's bolster the public system so it stays communal and fair.

The wealthy should be insentivised to put more money into public healthcare if they want better services. Private healthcare should be illegal. If you want better healthcare and don't mind paying more for it, then why wouldn't you advocate for higher taxes so healthcare is better for all? That's what I think we should do. I'm not going to walk by a waiting room of suffering people on my way to a VIP clinic where I get superior healthcare. I wouldn't want to live with myself if that was the type of guy I was. I would literally rather die than take away services from other people so they suffer because I paid a doctor to look at me first.

I'm also bothered when I read people in this thread supporting a two-tiered system based on their own ignorance. Pylon, you didn't fricken get a heart condition from a vaccine. Sorry, but you just didn't. You're not a scientist. You're a 50-year-old dude and you are going to encounter more and more health issues as you age (we all are). The vaccine is safe and there is all the evidence in the world to support that statement.

But somebody has to help me with this: how much are you guys in favour of a two-tiered system willing to pay per year to have better healthcare than your fellow Albertans? Like, if we can put a number on that and maybe figure out what it is as a percentage of your salary, maybe we get to a palatable number that could be considered as a tax increase for everyone to be put towards better healthcare for all. If it's 1‰ or 3‰...whatever it might be...let's do it. Let's pay more tax so we can all take care of each other.

Stunningly great post. These always carry so much weight as Sliver is a well off, business owner but continually speaks for the bulk of society to his own "detriment".

Most people are just "**** you, got mine".

[bagofpucks]

I was all for a two-tiered system until I just couldn’t find a way that it could be implemented that it that doesn’t cripple the primary system. The other thing I find odd is that most people I know that want the proposed two tier system are middle-upper class, but not exactly the uber rich. So yah, it’s great for your first few ailments that you can pay your way to better care; but what happens when you can’t? Or when you see your parents/siblings/neighbors/co-workers suffer through a worse system?

I always use the example of veterinarian care. We had a small goofy looking dog that needed back surgery. We saw the vet, got booked in two days later and during his stay at the hospital we could call 24/7 and get an update (that part made me laugh pretty good). Now, because vet care is only private we had no choice in the matter (other than putting him down and he was a young, healthy dog otherwise) and took the cost on the chin. After that experience, I can not imagine making someone choose between different levels of care for their human loved ones. Imagine you have a kid in pain and can’t pay for the fast lane?

Anyways, Sliver worded it perfectly, but just wanted to add a few points too.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Years of facts from the left.

There are a limited number of healthcare workers. If we remove some from the public system then rich people will get better care than people of lesser financial means. The only people who would want that are selfish. Not selfish in the colloquial sense where you'd kind of lob that as an insult, but selfish in the sober and objective definition of the word.

To think my health is more important and my ills can be addressed better and faster than someone with less money is an absolutely untenable stance to me. It's abhorrent.

Healthcare workers moving from the public sector to the private sector would make the public system even worse. People advocating for that are horrible people and terrible community members. Let's bolster the public system so it stays communal and fair.

The wealthy should be insentivised to put more money into public healthcare if they want better services. Private healthcare should be illegal. If you want better healthcare and don't mind paying more for it, then why wouldn't you advocate for higher taxes so healthcare is better for all? That's what I think we should do. I'm not going to walk by a waiting room of suffering people on my way to a VIP clinic where I get superior healthcare. I wouldn't want to live with myself if that was the type of guy I was. I would literally rather die than take away services from other people so they suffer because I paid a doctor to look at me first.

I'm also bothered when I read people in this thread supporting a two-tiered system based on their own ignorance. Pylon, you didn't fricken get a heart condition from a vaccine. Sorry, but you just didn't. You're not a scientist. You're a 50-year-old dude and you are going to encounter more and more health issues as you age (we all are). The vaccine is safe and there is all the evidence in the world to support that statement.

But somebody has to help me with this: how much are you guys in favour of a two-tiered system willing to pay per year to have better healthcare than your fellow Albertans? Like, if we can put a number on that and maybe figure out what it is as a percentage of your salary, maybe we get to a palatable number that could be considered as a tax increase for everyone to be put towards better healthcare for all. If it's 1‰ or 3‰...whatever it might be...let's do it. Let's pay more tax so we can all take care of each other.

Logged in to specifically thank this post. Well reasoned, feels very “Canadian” reading this reasoning / logic. I feel similarly as well.

Taxes need to go up. They just do.

Wife just told me that a couple weeks ago the Alberta Children’s Hospital just switched out a couple waiting rooms (that were still kinda needed as waiting rooms…) for hospital bed rooms. There are some people literally waiting 4-5 days in Emerg right now / being told to leave / come back. There are huge issues. People are going to emerg who do not need to be going to emerg and that’s leading to further back ups. Staff shortages.

And Cliff is also right, and so is Fuzz. There are structural changes needed, and Fuzz is right- some are happening. People are trying. But I’m not sure why we decided to build an Alberta Childrens Hospital with roughly the same amount of beds as the previous, making sure we get a gigantic cafeteria, Good Earth, gift shop and other coffee shop in there plus other seemingly wasteful spaces, (this isn’t a mall and doesn’t need to be FFS), and we have unions blocking better healthcare outcomes for patients in certain circumstances. Now that I have iggy oi’s attention, yes, this is happening, and yes, it is a union problem and no, I don’t want to get more specific and debate you about this because there will never be changing your mind on the matter it would it derail this thread, but it is 110% happening.

Nurse practitioners might be a good solution, but too bad our post secondary schools only offer extremely limited spots and in the rare event you can get in- good luck finding a practicum placement as no other NPs will take you (but they’re very eager to offer to hire you when done! Thanks but no thanks, now people can’t finish school and quit!). Docs also trying to limit / restrict NPs because it threatens their career / earnings. The list goes on. The system has so many flaws and issues it’s kind of tough to know where to begin but one thing is for absolute certain, it generally speaking needs more funding and way more capacity. How do we still only have 4 hospitals and none on the horizon in a city / region that literally had over 100k people immigrate last year?!? Governments have TOTALLY ####ed this up. It’s truly on governments to fix it, and this will be the defining electoral issue for the next 2-3 decades IMO with an aging population. Raise taxes already, or at the very least, start signalling you have to. We all know it’s coming FFS.