What to do with Huberdeau?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What are you talking about? Arizona didn’t sell cap space on the Ekman Larsen deal? They conned Vancouver into trading for OEL. And Montreal? Are you talking about Monahan?

I know you don’t know the deal Calgary could get because there’s no one trying to sell a bad contract and give up picks to do it. It’s talked about but almost never done.

What am I talking about? I’m talking about Arizona retaining money on Ekman-Larsson and spending $4.8M in cap to get it done.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it's a difference of perspective. I see what you're saying, it is what it is at this point. We have Huberdeau and his cap hit, and the team is on rails now.

The way I see it, his cap hit is hurting the team because we need a star player worthy of his cap hit, and the fact he has that cap hit and isn't anywhere near living up to that, means that we probably won't have that type of player for the next 7 years. That hurts the team. Maybe it doesn't matter because the team isn't overly competitive at this point, but the reason we aren't overly competitive is largely due to the wasted investment in Huberdeau.

See, for me, I don’t judge performance on ice by salary. The league isn’t built that way anymore anyway. To me the cap hit is impactful only on team building. So right now, his salary doesn’t matter because they don’t need the space. If he made league minimum, his production wouldn’t be better or worse.

Now, if this is Edmonton and they need a goalie or better defencmen and can’t sign or trade for any because of Nurse or Campbell’s contract - that’s a relevant cap hit.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

See, for me, I don’t judge performance on ice by salary. The league isn’t built that way anymore anyway. To me the cap hit is impactful only on team building. So right now, his salary doesn’t matter because they don’t need the space. If he made league minimum, his production wouldn’t be better or worse.

Now, if this is Edmonton and they need a goalie or better defencmen and can’t sign or trade for any because of Nurse or Campbell’s contract - that’s a relevant cap hit.

Are you aware that money is a constraint to building a team?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

What am I talking about? I’m talking about Arizona retaining money on Ekman-Larsson and spending $4.8M in cap to get it done.

Then it’s not an apt example of someone having cap space and benefiting from it.

It’s an example of how you get rid of a bad contract.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Are you aware that money is a constraint to building a team?

Only when a team is in buying mode.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Then it’s not an apt example of someone having cap space and benefiting from it.

It’s an example of how you get rid of a bad contract.

Arizona took on three bad contracts from Vancouver to buy a 1st round pick.

I am sure you’re more intelligent than this so I’ll chalk it up to a bad night and take it up with you later if you’d like.

[Sec214]

[Locke]

Paid like a Star, performing like an Intern.

Consequences?

[Flamesfan05]

There is zero chance of improvement if they decide not to use him.

At some point Huberdeau will start to give up, he is getting paid anyway

[Hackey]

Huberdeau is the 10th highest paid player in the league. If his production matched, that would give us a player like Petterson, Rantanen, Matthews. The Flames would likely be in a playoff spot and they wouldn't even be trying to rebuild. So the only reason you could even make the argument that his contract might not matter is because he's ridiculously underachieved.

How is trading Zadorovs 3.75M for cap space spun as such a good move yet Huberdeaus 10.5 that doesn't matter?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it's a difference of perspective. I see what you're saying, it is what it is at this point. We have Huberdeau and his cap hit, and the team is on rails now.

The way I see it, his cap hit is hurting the team because we need a star player worthy of his cap hit, and the fact he has that cap hit and isn't anywhere near living up to that, means that we probably won't have that type of player for the next 7 years. That hurts the team. Maybe it doesn't matter because the team isn't overly competitive at this point, but the reason we aren't overly competitive is largely due to the wasted investment in Huberdeau.

We need a star player worth $10.5? Now? I don’t think so. I think that’s the opposite of what the Flames need for the foreseeable future.

The Flames are starting a rebuild. It’s already happening. In a little over two months time I’ll bet they’re under the cap, with room to spare. They’ll have moved on from the three remaining UFA’s and maybe more. Sure, they may take some cap back to make deals work or retain salary, so technically they’ll be close to the cap but I don’t think their intentions are going to be spend to the cap to compete, it’s going to be more about spending cap to acquire assets (draft picks).

I suspect with what Conroy/Iggy/Nonnis/Maloney are attempting to build the next Flame to earn $10.5/year is a player they haven’t drafted yet. In other words, we’re, at the absolute very least, four years away from that. Likely more. And at that point, what’s the cap going to be in 2027/28?

Gio’s right, Huberdeau’s cap hit isn’t a concern, right now. I don’t see a scenario where it prevents them from proceeding on a rebuild/retool for this season and 2-3 more. Could it be four-five-six years down the road? Yes, that could be the case but there’s a lot of things that could happen between now and then.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Huberdeau is the 10th highest paid player in the league. If his production matched, that would give us a player like Petterson, Rantanen, Matthews. The Flames would likely be in a playoff spot and they wouldn't even be trying to rebuild. So the only reason you could even make the argument that his contract might not matter is because he's ridiculously underachieved.

How is trading Zadorovs 3.75M for cap space spun as such a good move yet Huberdeaus 10.5 that doesn't matter?

Haven’t you been advocating for a rebuild? If so, what’s the issue?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Huberdeau is the 10th highest paid player in the league. If his production matched, that would give us a player like Petterson, Rantanen, Matthews. The Flames would likely be in a playoff spot and they wouldn't even be trying to rebuild. So the only reason you could even make the argument that his contract might not matter is because he's ridiculously underachieved.

How is trading Zadorovs 3.75M for cap space spun as such a good move yet Huberdeaus 10.5 that doesn't matter?

EDIT: you are mixing up the fact that Huberdeau isn’t performing to his salary (undoubtedly true) with the argument that his cap hit is “hurting” the team right now. I’m distinguishing between his lack of performance which is hurting the team, no matter how much he’s paid, and his cap hit, which is having a negligible effect right now.

As for Zadorov, trading an expiring contract without retention so you can retain on others is different than what’s being hypothesized- that somehow without Huberdeau Calgary would be buying up bad contracts for a bunch of picks and prospects.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Huberdeau is the 10th highest paid player in the league. If his production matched, that would give us a player like Petterson, Rantanen, Matthews. The Flames would likely be in a playoff spot and they wouldn't even be trying to rebuild. So the only reason you could even make the argument that his contract might not matter is because he's ridiculously underachieved.

How is trading Zadorovs 3.75M for cap space spun as such a good move yet Huberdeaus 10.5 that doesn't matter?

The new arena would be called Conroy Stadium if trades Huberdeau without cap coming back. He gets a statue if he trades that contract without losing major futures.
There is no getting out from under that contract. So might as well play him a tonne and hope he figured it out again

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Arizona took on three bad contracts from Vancouver to buy a 1st round pick.

I am sure you’re more intelligent than this so I’ll chalk it up to a bad night and take it up with you later if you’d like.

That’s not what the OEL trade was about at all. Vancouver took on the worst contract in that deal and then had to buy it out. Huberdeau is the OEL in that trade. So it’s the reverse of what you are arguing. Vancouver paid 3 picks to take on an anchor contract (because they somehow thought OEL and signing rights to Garland was worth it).

If you can find a team who will trade 3 expiring contracts and 3 picks for Huberdeau and the signing rights to Dube let me know.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Huberdeau is the 10th highest paid player in the league. If his production matched, that would give us a player like Petterson, Rantanen, Matthews. The Flames would likely be in a playoff spot and they wouldn't even be trying to rebuild. So the only reason you could even make the argument that his contract might not matter is because he's ridiculously underachieved.

How is trading Zadorovs 3.75M for cap space spun as such a good move yet Huberdeaus 10.5 that doesn't matter?

Some people already gave up on the Flames competing
Others will spin anything good because that’s the kind of fan they are, which is ok

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Haven’t you been advocating for a rebuild? If so, what’s the issue?

And $10.5 million in cap space would be incredibly valuable in a rebuild. It seems like only two people are unable to acknowledge this.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

And $10.5 million in cap space would be incredibly valuable in a rebuild. It seems like only two people are unable to acknowledge this.

Sounds like you’re saying the Flames should have no cap hit whatsoever. You’re signalling out one contract of 23. Is there a rebuilding team in the league that doesn’t have a contract they would love to simply get rid of?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

And $10.5 million in cap space would be incredibly valuable in a rebuild. It seems like only two people are unable to acknowledge this.

Well of course but that’s not happening. His contract won’t matter for the next 3-4 years. The last 2-3 might be very iffy if the Flames hit on their picks. The Flames will also have ample cap space starting next year.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m saying for the next 4 years or so Calgary will not be making big signings and won’t need to make big money extensions. Who do you think Calgary would be signing in the next few years but for Huberdeau’s hit?

Again, show your work, instead of sneering at the argument. The Flames don’t need to stay 10M below cap for the hit to be irrelevant. The relevance is them being unable to do something they otherwise would do. So what is it?

Show my work? What do you mean, predict how they would use the cap space? You haven’t seen rebuilding teams weaponize cap space before? With a productive use of the $10.5M would they even be rebuilding?

Did you not listen to the GM talk about how valuable cap space was at the deadline?

It seems that you bring Huberdeau up often , even in game threads. What is it? I thought that at a minimum all Flames fans at least acknowledged that his play/contract is a problem but you want to fight that?

Now I do think they need to resign themselves to living with it for several more years unless another equally bad contract manifests itself. There isn’t one currently. But suggesting they are no worse off because of this is nonsense. Whether they are rebuilding or trying to contend.