2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I am focusing on the end result of the season. This isn't soccer the regular season is a means to an end, the point is to compete in the best, most entertaining and rewarding hockey of the year the playoffs.

I fully understand only one team wins the cup and that it is a very difficult task. A team can have a good year without winning the cup from the perspective of a fan. Nevertheless, winning two playoff rounds in 17 years is hardly success by any metric. Losing to your biggest rival in their biggest matchup in 20 years is not fun, or rewarding, it is awful, one of the worst things that can happen to you as a fan. Blowing leads in the third period as a heavy favorite three games in a row and being blow out of the first round isn't entertaining, it is disappointing.

The bolded above are totally fair comments. Losing to Edmonton was crushing, not fun. Being disappointed is totally valid and reasonable feeling.

The fact you felt those things, like we all did, doesn't change the point. Those were successful seasons. Like almost all seasons when you don't win the cup, they ended with some form of heart break, disappointment etc... Doesn't change the fact they were successful in the macro picture.

And your other comment about 17 seasons, which is also valid, is a massive tainted glasses picture many Flames fans on here have. Don't disagree with the "feelings" 17 years of mediocrity have brought for us fans. Unfortunately though, the fact that the past, hasn't been as fruit full as we've had like, doesn't actually mean the bar for success moving forward is higher for this team. We can't change or erase the past. The Flames haven't not been as successful of a franchise as we would have all liked up to this point, that's true.

That fact is allowed to stir up emotions, but it's not allowed to make the bar for success higher on any given season. For example, there is nothing that Conroy can do to change the fact that previous versions of the Flames didn't get the job done. All he can do is try to move the needle on the upcoming seasons. Fans refusing to acknowledge successes the franchise has had recently or in the future, because nothing but a cup will do with the justification of "there's been too much failure previously" will constantly live in a state of dissatisfaction, and will constantly feel like every single version of this Flames team is failing in perpetuity.

The past is the past, it's spilt milk as they say. We can't get back the missed opportunity of the late 80's early 90's Flames to deliver more than one cup and more than one run. We can't get back the fact the Iggy and Kipper era teams never one a playoff round post 04 run. And we can't get back the fact the Treliving, Flames only provided 2 playoff wins and 2 division titles. It's done, and is not a burden any future version of the Flames should be carrying with them.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Low standards we have as flames fans

As long as the first guy out of the doors for the home opener introductions does not do a face plant on the ice we should consider the upcoming season a success.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't know if that's true. I love the playoffs and watch them straight through regardless of whether the Flames are in them or not (usually not lol).

I'm not even suggesting that season success is equal to playoff success, but season success is a thing on its own, and there's some joy and entertainment to be had there, too.

Sure I love potatoes, but it aint the whole meal.

[FlamesAddiction]

I saw on the transactions list that Carl Hagelin has officially retired. Didn't play last season due to injury. He made it to 35 before retiring, which isn't bad, but still sad to see a player have to call it due to injuries.

I also saw that Zherdev is still playing pro hockey and signed in Italy. He has to be one of the top 5 most talented players who just wasted it. I wonder if he regrets how lazy he was while in the NHL. He likely cost himself a fortune and is now 38 and likely playing for peanuts.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

here it is



1. NJD
2. CAR
3. TBL
14. MTL
17. OTT
20. EDM
27. TOR
28. WPG
30.VAN
31. CGY

Do you know where Vegas finished on this very same list prior to last season? 31st. It's completely meaningless and only further exemplifies how fickle fans truly are.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Goaltending is part of the team

And for most of that season goaltending was terrific. They blew one series, collectively (and with a bad no-goal call as well).

Same could be said for 18-19.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Do you know where Vegas finished on this very same list prior to last season? 31st. It's completely meaningless and only further exemplifies how fickle fans truly are.

I'm not adding any meaning to it. I just saw the discussion, and added the source. What I think this shows is that CGY fans expect this team to be worse, before it can get better. Is anyone really surprised that the top teams on the list have young players locked up in key roles and/or a lot of playoff success recently?

Without the Panther's playoff run they would be in the 20s instead of 7th. I'm a little surprised to see PIT this high on the list going up to 10th place.

[Saqe]

Re: Regular season success vs playoff success


There can be made a case for regular season success, like the two years recently the Flames have had, being valid data point of "success". Arguably regular season success SHOULD be celebrated more, it is such a long and tough grind for months. I don't have a problem with fans who want to make the argument that it's enough for a successful season to have success in the regular season, even if the playoffs are a flop.

Personally I could not care less about the regular season. Case and point, I would take the long playoff run the Panthers had last year over the Presidents trophy they won two years ago any day of the week. It's not even close really.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Personally I could not care less about the regular season. Case and point, I would take the long playoff run the Panthers had last year over the Presidents trophy they won two years ago any day of the week. It's not even close really.

I don't think there's any argument for that. I was embarrassed both years they choked against Colorado and the Oilers and don't brag about what happened in the regular season. But I can also acknowledge those were successful seasons for the most part.

[Vinny01]

Agreed you take a long run as an underdog over a great regular season and fizzle out early but typically if a team wins the presidents trophy they are a well built good team where we see average teams get hot and go on a run and miss the playoffs a year later or never become a true contender again (see Flames post 04).

I have been advocating for a Flames bounce back mostly because I prefer to have a glass half full feel for the team as it makes anticipating the season more enjoyable. We don’t know if the new core of the team just had an off year or if this will be a typical bounce back when the outside is counting them out. Obviously 3 key players had disastrous seasons last year and if Huberdeau, Markstrom, Mangiapane can bounce back and others maintain what they did last year this team should be 100pts at least. End of the day it all remains to be seen but I personally prefer to be optimistic than regurgitating the same takes for months on end that this has been a bad franchise for 3 decades. If I felt the same way as some posters on this site do I would stick to the off topic forum and stop following the team so close and get a new hobby.

[Monahammer]

Lol at the moving goal posts. Now playoff success isn't defined by amount of series wins but only by cup finals appearances? Common.

We are not as good as the flyers. I think it's dumb we even need to debate this. Who would want to be the f-ing flyers anyways?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Re: Regular season success vs playoff success


There can be made a case for regular season success, like the two years recently the Flames have had, being valid data point of "success". Arguably regular season success SHOULD be celebrated more, it is such a long and tough grind for months. I don't have a problem with fans who want to make the argument that it's enough for a successful season to have success in the regular season, even if the playoffs are a flop.

Personally I could not care less about the regular season. Case and point, I would take the long playoff run the Panthers had last year over the Presidents trophy they won two years ago any day of the week. It's not even close really.

I don't even care much about standings any more outside of being above the playoff cutoff.

Home ice seems like less of advantage than it ever has been (could be wrong though)

I'd say a slight preference for a divisional spot over the wildcard but given how anything can and does happen, and momentum going in matters more than being good all year (see: Boston/Florida), my position on it is just get in.

[Nelson]

2004 and on. Flyers: 10 playoff series won. Flames: 6 playoff series won.

Also, I don't know how much difference it makes whether we go back 19 or 23 years. The difference is arbitrary.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Even without the cup you can't look back and say those seasons are not successful. Losing in the playoffs and how we lost sucks for sure, but when you lived in the moment during those season I bet everyone was enjoying watching the team fill the net.

Playoffs are a crapshoot and in a series things can go anyway, but over the course of 82 games when you win 50 games you are a successful team no matter the playoff result unless you are winning games just off powerplays.

[GioforPM]

Honestly, who cares about the past? I want to go to games and see a good game, have some prospect going forward of seing more wins than losses and hopefully playoff wins as well.

Aside from that I anticipate there will be good post seasons and bad ones. I mean, everyone is crowing about the Panthers, who have been a joke for most of their existence.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

What is relevant in your mind? Because youre going to have to be careful you dont accidentally pick a timeframe that makes us appear worse than the oilers.

Since 2010 they've won 6 and we've won 3.

You have to limit us to like 2015 to beat the flyers in playoff success.

The bulk of the board have been fans of the team since 2004 at least judging by the age poll.

Really, this is a difficult position to hold. The flyers are just a better franchise than us for playoff success over the period most of us have been fans.

The period that most have us have been fans is largely irrelevant.
I would say the last 5-10 years hold the most relevance
Not worried about trying to be better than the Oilers. Most recently they HAVE been better.

But looking back on decades long time windows doesn't seem relevant to me.

The last decade the franchise's have been run similarly, including a refusal to re-build. Until most recently the Flyers have shifted that approach which could be to their benefit.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The period that most have us have been fans is largely irrelevant.
I would say the last 5-10 years hold the most relevance
Not worried about trying to be better than the Oilers. Most recently they HAVE been better.

But looking back on decades long time windows doesn't seem relevant to me.

The last decade the franchise's have been run similarly, including a refusal to re-build. Until most recently the Flyers have shifted that approach which could be to their benefit.

For a very long time the Edmonton rivalry was dead because of how much they sucked, and it was really more intense with Canucks with everything that happened since 2004.

[1qqaaz]

I can't between how obnoxious, snarky, and off-putting the Canuck fans were around 2009-2013.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I can't between how obnoxious, snarky, and off-putting the Canuck fans were around 2009-2013.

It was some streets ahead d-baggery, to be sure.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yeah the dome was not a fun place to be with Canuck fans they like to start a lot of things.