[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

I always wondered how "Rickies", The White Spot or Smitty's had their franchises survive the past 10yrs...or a voter in the US not making $250k / yr would vote for the Red team.

Then the last few years the emergence of the "accept it" we're not rebuilding Flames Fan emerged.

I guess you can get used to anything.

Seems like a prudent decision seeing there is absolutely sweet FA a fan can do to change it, other than stop watching.

Odd take.

[jayswin]

It's not really an odd take, actually. It's just basically what you have to accept as a fan of this team over the years if you want to cheer for them. It's fine, sports are just a distraction and not serious in the grand scheme of things, but our team building kind of is what it is with a very large sample size.

We're very unlikely to rebuild properly and are not a destination for top tier players thru free agency or trades (if they have NTC which most stars do) so our best hope is mostly building a middling/decent team and hoping for a miracle playoff run.

[traptor]

The flames may not want to full tear down rebuild but they may just suck for a few years until young elite talent emerges.

If lindy, hanifin and backlund are out this team will obviously be way worse. Even if you make hockey trades similar to the toffoli deal, we're most likely not getting equal caliber back.

It's not crazy to think the flames will bottom out.
Is this roster without lindy, hanifin, tanev and backlund really any better then the ducks, coyotes and blackhawks? Especially as they're young elite talent walks into their prime.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

I always wondered how "Rickies", The White Spot or Smitty's had their franchises survive the past 10yrs...or a voter in the US not making $250k / yr would vote for the Red team.

Then the last few years the emergence of the "accept it" we're not rebuilding Flames Fan emerged.

I guess you can get used to anything.

It's best to accept the things in life you have no control over. I think this is especially true if your idea of not accepting it is griping about it on a message board. (Not directed at you specifically ...)

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

He is nowhere near past his prime.

Statistically speaking, I think the vast majority of forwards top out between 26-28 no?

If you want to argue that Lindholm will be “different” or whatever in the Bergeron mould, I won’t argue against that, like I said I love the player. But that is completely subjective and kind of beside the point IMO. Another massive contract for an aging player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by heep223

Statistically speaking, I think the vast majority of forwards top out between 26-28 no?

Yes, but the drop off from 29-32/33 is usually not precipitous. For many players it is negligible.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Ashasx]

nm

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by heep223

Statistically speaking, I think the vast majority of forwards top out between 26-28 no?

If you want to argue that Lindholm will be “different” or whatever in the Bergeron mould, I won’t argue against that, like I said I love the player. But that is completely subjective and kind of beside the point IMO. Another massive contract for an aging player.

Don’t most good teams do this though?Crosby and Malkin won cups in their 30s with massive contracts taking them past their prime. Toews and Kaner same thing. Ovechkin. Stone. Stamkos. Like every single team that’s won a cup has kept their higher end players, signed them to massive contracts and then eventually won with those players. If we want to continue to be mediocre we will continue to bungle our higher end assets and not surround them with truly great talent but over payed UFA talent like Brouwer, Neal, Raymond etc. if we want to flip the script we will pay up to keep the top talent that we’ve invested so much time and effort into developing. Lindy isn’t the greatest example of this but it still rings true, most teams don’t let players like Lindy at the age he’s at reach free agency and there’s a reason for it.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Don’t most good teams do this though?Crosby and Malkin won cups in their 30s with massive contracts taking them past their prime. Toews and Kaner same thing. Ovechkin. Stone. Stamkos. Like every single team that’s won a cup has kept their higher end players, signed them to massive contracts and then eventually won with those players. If we want to continue to be mediocre we will continue to bungle our higher end assets and not surround them with truly great talent but over payed UFA talent like Brouwer, Neal, Raymond etc. if we want to flip the script we will pay up to keep the top talent that we’ve invested so much time and effort into developing. Lindy isn’t the greatest example of this but it still rings true, most teams don’t let players like Lindy at the age he’s at reach free agency and there’s a reason for it.

Pens won their last Cup when Crosby was 29 and Malkin was 30.

Hawks won their last Cup when Toews was 26 and Kane was 25

Super rare for teams to win Cups when their top guys are in their 30’s, it does not happen much.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Pens won their last Cup when Crosby was 29 and Malkin was 30.

Hawks won their last Cup when Toews was 26 and Kane was 25

Super rare for teams to win Cups when their top guys are in their 30’s, it does not happen much.

Vegas

Marchessault 31
Smith 31
Pietrangelo 32
Karlsson 29
Stone 30
McNabb 31
Martinez 35

You cannot have ALL older vets just like you cannot have ALL young guys.

It takes different guys in different roles all buying in....regardless of age.

People have this strange idea that guys are finished once their age starts with a 3. Its silly. Some guys fall off, others adjust their games, and others just play at the same level.

There is no one singular hard and fast rule to it all.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Pens won their last Cup when Crosby was 29 and Malkin was 30.

Hawks won their last Cup when Toews was 26 and Kane was 25

Super rare for teams to win Cups when their top guys are in their 30’s, it does not happen much.

I don't agree. Sprinkle a couple younger guys in but for most part all cup winning teams after Blackhawks year has been won by teams with leading players in late 20s or early 30s

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Vegas

Marchessault 31
Smith 31
Pietrangelo 32
Karlsson 29
Stone 30
McNabb 31
Martinez 35

You cannot have ALL older vets just like you cannot have ALL young guys.

It takes different guys in different roles all buying in....regardless of age.

People have this strange idea that guys are finished once their age starts with a 3. Its silly. Some guys fall off, others adjust their games, and others just play at the same level.

There is no one singular hard and fast rule to it all.

3 of those guys in their 30s are what I’d call their core, and they’re early 30s.

Our guys are starting their contracts in their 30s. Much different scenario.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

3 of those guys in their 30s are what I’d call their core, and they’re early 30s.

Our guys are starting their contracts in their 30s. Much different scenario.

Our core is

Lindholm (if signed) 28
Huberdeau 30
Kadri 31
Anderson 25
Weegar 28
One of Dube/Mangiapane 25

Hopefully one of the real young guys pops and grabs a spot as well.


So yeah in 5/6 years it looks different/troubling, but right now? Its fine. Its the way the league works right now.

[Saqe]

Haven't kept up with the thread but this whole situation with Lindholm seems ridiculous, how is Conroy supposed to operate and build a team for next year if there is no deadline for Lindholm to make his decision? Draft is already gone and so are all the UFAs. Teams have filled their most urgent needs. Are they really going to take all three guys to next season knowing that they all are just waiting to get away and aren't invested in the team? Not blaming Conroy at all here but the situation stinks.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Our core is

Lindholm (if signed) 28
Huberdeau 30
Kadri 31
Anderson 25
Weegar 28
One of Dube/Mangiapane 25

Hopefully one of the real young guys pops and grabs a spot as well.


So yeah in 5/6 years it looks different/troubling, but right now? Its fine. Its the way the league works right now.

When his extension kicks in, Lindholm is 29. That works if you have the 25 and below forward group stronger than the Flames is.

I personally think that’s a recipe for a cap strapped team that will require your scouting staff hitting home runs picking 14-18th overall for the considerable future.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Haven't kept up with the thread but this whole situation with Lindholm seems ridiculous, how is Conroy supposed to operate and build a team for next year if there is no deadline for Lindholm to make his decision?

"Connie" learned his lessons well from the Wizard and his handling of Gaudreau. Always give the player all the control in negotiations and allow them to dictate terms and conditions to the team. Always give them time and space to maintain that control and don't be concerned about opportunities to focus on the big picture improvement of the team. It's all part of the process. /snark

Conroy is certainly putting the team behind the eight ball with the way he is handling this. He needs to be thinking big picture and react accordingly. The two big opportunities to make improvements have now passed for the year. Treliving painted Conroy into a corner and he now has to figure a way out.

Draft is already gone and so are all the UFAs. Teams have filled their most urgent needs. Are they really going to take all three guys to next season knowing that they all are just waiting to get away and aren't invested in the team? Not blaming Conroy at all here but the situation stinks.

The market for deals is quickly drying up. With each signing budgets become that much tighter and take more teams out of the mix for deals or make them that much harder to consummate. There are still multiple paths forward, but each one just became that much more treacherous because of the market the team did not anticipate.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Vegas

Marchessault 31
Smith 31
Pietrangelo 32
Karlsson 29
Stone 30
McNabb 31
Martinez 35

You cannot have ALL older vets just like you cannot have ALL young guys.

It takes different guys in different roles all buying in....regardless of age.

People have this strange idea that guys are finished once their age starts with a 3. Its silly. Some guys fall off, others adjust their games, and others just play at the same level.

There is no one singular hard and fast rule to it all.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Our core is

Lindholm (if signed) 28
Huberdeau 30
Kadri 31
Anderson 25
Weegar 28
One of Dube/Mangiapane 25

Hopefully one of the real young guys pops and grabs a spot as well.


So yeah in 5/6 years it looks different/troubling, but right now? Its fine. Its the way the league works right now.

And you want to have a team that is strong down the middle.

Lindholm/Kadri is a pretty solid 1-2 center punch.

If Backlund stays as well, that is a very strong top 3 C's to build around for a few years.

Take Lindholm out of that, and woof.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

And you want to have a team that is strong down the middle.

Lindholm/Kadri is a pretty solid 1-2 center punch.

If Backlund stays as well, that is a very strong top 3 C's to build around for a few years.

Take Lindholm out of that, and woof.

Yes woof. But a bigger woof IMO is having $25M tied up in Hube, Kadri and Lindholm into their late 30s. Last season made me completely lose faith in this group so I don’t think we’re going to win or be very competitive over the next few years. We won’t be able to move those contracts after that.

We need to get younger and accumulate picks and prospects. I assume Lindholm would be in very high demand (though maybe the “underwhelming offers” apply to him also)

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

And you want to have a team that is strong down the middle.

Lindholm/Kadri is a pretty solid 1-2 center punch.

If Backlund stays as well, that is a very strong top 3 C's to build around for a few years.

Take Lindholm out of that, and woof.

Even with those three, I don't believe the Flames are in the top three in their own division.

At best a wild card team, this has to be a issue for Lindholm

If he wants to win, are the Flames the correct choice

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes, but the drop off from 29-32/33 is usually not precipitous. For many players it is negligible.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

Ok that may be true but I was responding to “he is nowhere near past his prime”. Which is clearly not the case - he’s about to be past it if he’s not already.