Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Why would somebody of any reasonable intelligence vote for the UCP?

I honestly think a lot of it is gullible old people scared of change and things they don't understand.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's so intellectually bankrupt that it's impossible to conceive of someone so stupid. Yet, here it is, in this very thread.

To me it confirms wanton ignorance and purposefully immoral posture. There's a certain amorality to this type of activity. It's sinister, insidious, and down right despicable. It's almost Yoho level antipathy for society.

You pretty much nailed it, yeah. They’re morally vacant. I’m sure it would be a shock if someone suggested that someone complaining about being unable to vote NDP because the supporters are “mean” is also someone who has no trouble bullying others and calling them mentally ill and deeply troubled over DM because they made a cliche joke they didn’t like.

UCP supporters can complain to high heaven about people being mean to them, but most of them left have no problem playing the same game in public (calling people nazis, threatening them, etc). The rest are happy to say even worse #### in private. The difference is that they can’t take it. They’re weak. And the UCP preys upon that weakness and makes them feel like victims.

But there’s no morality there. They aren’t victims. They’re the bullies. The conservatives who aren’t bullies can see that just fine, and the good people caught up in it are slowly coming around, but will it happen in time? I don’t know. TBA bullied every decent person out of a position of control in the UCP and their fans love it. It’s gross.

[Erick Estrada]

Ha ha ha. I'm takin the high road here.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Benita Pedersen organized the hospital protests where cancer patients and their families were harassed.

That is correct. These people are influencing politics in AB:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1437529626876674049

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I honestly think a lot of it is gullible old people scared of change and things they don't understand.

The poppy thing ain't going to go over well with that set. If they're not veterans themselves they likely had loved ones who were. Not to mention that demographic suffered the most severe covid outcomes.

[redflamesfan08]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

The poppy thing ain't going to go over well with that set. If they're not veterans themselves they likely had loved ones who were. Not to mention that demographic suffered the most severe covid outcomes.

I hope you're right about this, but that demographic will have to demonstrate with their votes before I'll believe they can put anything above the colour blue when it comes to voting.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There are many reasons. Alot of the discussion in this thread is about the extremes and about the headlines.

However, people are mostly one-issue voters and don't look at the extremes. I'll give you one example in my world. The non-union Alberta employee wage freeze.

2016:
https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-salary-freeze

Two year wage freeze turned into 6 years. With the UCP, they stopped the freeze and there has been two one time wage increases. One in mid 2022 of 12% to make people who were there from the start whole again and then another increase at the end of 2022, and expecting another one later this year.

2022:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ends-1.6403001

I'm one of these managers and was not able to receive a raise nor increase wages of my employees nor increase the head count of my team even though the workload has increase 3-fold. Something iggy_oi has blasted me about for years, very fairly. Girly doesn't pay her employees, well, I can't.

So if you're a non-union Alberta provincial worker, why would you vote for the NDP who could freezing your wages again?

This is a great point. To be fair to the NDP, they were trying to be fiscally responsible during the oil downturn (which ironically would appeal to conservatives, but let's be real fiscal conservatives aren't a real thing). And it wasn't until the swing up in oil prices when the UCP got into power that the dollars made sense to remove the cap.

However, I am on board with the fact that public service administration gets a lot of flak and are the scapegoat for far too many things. The current public service runs pretty lean at the administration level and I hope that regardless of what government gets in, your efforts are recognized.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Isn't the entire Conservative/UCP mantra to cut the public service over and over again because.....efficiencies?


I would rather have a safe job with a raise once in a while than no job.

You say that like jobs are 100% public and it's better to keep your job than lose. With a wage freeze, you lose talent as they go to the private sector. There's a whole world out there.

As for cutting public services, that depends. Are they just plain cut with no replacement? I doubt it. Is it a reorg where some jobs that were public go private? Is it a reorg where union becomes non-union and older people end up getting cut for younger people.

Like any kind of shuffle (left or right), there are people who benefit and people who fall through the cracks. And people will vote on that one issue.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Regorium

This is a great point. To be fair to the NDP, they were trying to be fiscally responsible during the oil downturn (which ironically would appeal to conservatives, but let's be real fiscal conservatives aren't a real thing). And it wasn't until the swing up in oil prices when the UCP got into power that the dollars made sense to remove the cap.

However, I am on board with the fact that public service administration gets a lot of flak and are the scapegoat for far too many things. The current public service runs pretty lean at the administration level and I hope that regardless of what government gets in, your efforts are recognized.

It was the freezing of non-union but not union that made it NDPish. I think if the UCP has to make such a move in 2016, it would have been across the board.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You say that like jobs are 100% public and it's better to keep your job than lose. With a wage freeze, you lose talent as they go to the private sector. There's a whole world out there.

As for cutting public services, that depends. Are they just plain cut with no replacement? I doubt it. Is it a reorg where some jobs that were public go private? Is it a reorg where union becomes non-union and older people end up getting cut for younger people.

Like any kind of shuffle (left or right), there are people who benefit and people who fall through the cracks. And people will vote on that one issue.

Sure is, but the people that fall through the cracks with the Left are people who are already ahead of the curve. NDP freeze public service management wages and negotiate 0% raises with Unions. UCP unfreeze public service management and tries to negotiate 11% roll back with nurses.

So the people making hundreds of thousands of dollars get their raises back while asking front line nurses to take the hit.

So yea, both kinds of shuffle will have people fall through the cracks. I felt really bad for those DMs who were frozen at $240,000 a year, those poor bastards have families to feed.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Sure is, but the people that fall through the cracks with the Left are people who are already ahead of the curve. NDP freeze public service management wages and negotiate 0% raises with Unions. UCP unfreeze public service management and tries to negotiate 11% roll back with nurses.

So the people making hundreds of thousands of dollars get their raises back while asking front line nurses to take the hit.

So yea, both kinds of shuffle will have people fall through the cracks. I felt really bad for those DMs who were frozen at $240,000 a year, those poor bastards have families to feed.

For sure, I'm giving an example why that DMs family would vote UCP, not because they're extreme idiots.

[GGG]

Nm

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I honestly think a lot of it is gullible old people scared of change and things they don't understand.

This is totally it. They've been conditioned for so long to vote conservative because 'that's what Alberta does', they'll vote for them purely on habit, even if the main 'conservative party' is a smoldering ball of #### at this point. No critical thinking skills here whatsoever, and no desire or energy to apply them.

I'm hoping the steady influx of new Albertans from the rest of Canada and abroad, combined with young generations now coming up, combined with the decreasing numbers of 'old stock' Albertans will change the political landscape going forward.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Spoiler!

Purportedly from someone on the front lines of the wildfires.

Granted, some of it is likely stressed out people spouting off...

[TheIronMaiden]

I didn't do a deep dive or anything, but Drayton social media seemed pretty tame to me.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Benita Pedersen organized the hospital protests where cancer patients and their families were harassed.

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Spoiler!

Purportedly from someone on the front lines of the wildfires.

Granted, some of it is likely stressed out people spouting off...

Basically the result of allowing misinformation to go unchecked, and handing power over to ####ing morons who have no grasp on reality, aka Danielle Smith. This is what you are voting for, a civilization modeled after ignorance and a failure to listen to people who know what the #### they are talking about.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There are many reasons. Alot of the discussion in this thread is about the extremes and about the headlines.

However, people are mostly one-issue voters and don't look at the extremes. I'll give you one example in my world. The non-union Alberta employee wage freeze.

2016:
https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...-salary-freeze

Two year wage freeze turned into 6 years. With the UCP, they stopped the freeze and there has been two one time wage increases. One in mid 2022 of 12% to make people who were there from the start whole again and then another increase at the end of 2022, and expecting another one later this year.

2022:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ends-1.6403001

I'm one of these managers and was not able to receive a raise nor increase wages of my employees nor increase the head count of my team even though the workload has increase 3-fold. Something iggy_oi has blasted me about for years, very fairly. Girly doesn't pay her employees, well, I can't.

So if you're a non-union Alberta provincial worker, why would you vote for the NDP who could freezing your wages again?

If your vote is 100% decided by your financial interests, then that doesn't make you a moron. It makes you a selfish moron.

[Alpha_Q]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Spruce Cliff and Wildwood are similar. We have started to see more signs for Milliken popping up—expect part of it is the NDP has been getting theirs up more quickly. My parents are in the Marda Loop area, and there it’s more like 5-1.

On my street the count is exactly 3-1 for the NDP—but the UCP supporter put two signs on opposite ends of his lawn to make it look like two different houses, which I found kind of hilarious. I have no idea how much the “sign war” actually matters, but the campaigns sure seem to treat it like it does.

Hey neighbor. I noticed in SC/WW that initially there were a number of NDP signs, then UCP started to pick up, but the last couple of days a lot more NDP signs have been popping up. It's about 3-1 4-1 right now in NDP favor. Last election, there might have been 8 NDP signs in total.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

…. Danielle Smith can shoot someone on 8th Ave and get away with murder with these guys....

Where have I heard that before?

Oh, right.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If your vote is 100% decided by your financial interests, then that doesn't make you a moron. It makes you a selfish moron.

You don't think NDP voters vote for financial interests? Higher minimum wage, better paying jobs, more social programs, more rebates, restructuring from oil to green etc... Again, restructuring helps some and hurts others, the left votes for their advantage too.

or is that simply fairness due to past injustices?