[PGT] Flames 6, Bolts 3: The Never Ending PGT

[browna]

Originally Posted by direwolf

That Tuesday presser is proof that today's comments are being blown waaaaay out of proportion by some folks. He was obviously just being his usual curmudgeon self when dealing with the media. Nothing to see here IMO.

Can't be a Flames game day without some faux outrage here.

They didn't lose and dominated the entire game against a top team. In an afternoon game.
One of the young guys played, and played on PP2.

But now Sutter's curt response to an season long antagonistic reporter (and Francis, feeling he's in second place also had to be piping up) in a post media conference is now going to make its rounds and ruin any chance at Phillips, Coronato and our unborn 2040 1st round pick, to ever want to play for the Flames.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by browna

But now Sutter's curt response to an season long antagonistic reporter (and Francis, feeling he's in second place also had to be piping up) in a post media conference is now going to make its rounds and ruin any chance at Phillips, Coronato and our unborn 2040 1st round pick, to ever want to play for the Flames.

I still don't get the take that somehow Salim was being antagonistic.

In what world is asking "What did you think of Pelletier in his debut?" an antagonistic question.

Even the earlier question that went viral when Salim asked about Phillips was not antagonistic in any way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It was a great win. Might have been their best win of the season. Nobody forced Darryl to make that comment and, ultimately, become the story.

And the comment about players always being the problem was intended more as a direct counter to the comments I've seen about Huberdeau being a bust, etc. More broadly, the team has been far more active about making coaching changes than swapping out coaches — although that's also a consequence of going bargain bin shopping for coaches in the past.

Darryl has a lot to work with and the expectations are sky high. The results have been thoroughly underwhelming, excellent win against TB notwithstanding. And I think, generally, people are wearing thin of his shtick.

It’s not about there being a story around Sutter’s comments. He made them, he knows. It’s about media and fans using it as another excuse to talk endlessly about their own personal gripes with Sutter. Just the same regurgitated nonsense by the same posters (not referring to you here, you’re always respectful even if i disagree) whining about Sutter. And honestly, is it necessary? If Pelletier was so great and so deserving of being the story, why hasn’t anyone even tried to make him the story? Sutter makes a comment and the media forget the kid’s game entirely. Fans don’t actually care about Pelletier, or Phillips, because if we’re being honest they aren’t the most exciting prospects. They’re just a route they can take to blame the coach, again, for whatever. Those players aren’t the story because they don’t make themselves the story when it’s game time. That’s on them. If the players want to be the story, be it. Gaudreau was. Tkachuk was. Kylington was.

Sutter came in and turned things around for a lot of players and helped them achieve career years. Treliving switches the players around, and now it’s Sutter’s fault that the new ones aren’t doing good? The same coach who came in and helped guys get better? Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, Gudbranson… these were Sutter guys, and they keep getting traded or shown the door. Guys like Lindholm, Zadorov, Kylington, Tanev, Mangiapane… all guys who have reached new levels with Sutter, and there are more. But Huberdeau plays poorly and Pelletier and Phillips do nothing with their ice time and Sutter is actually bad for players?

Don’t buy it.

[dino7c]

HNIC totally ignoring this game like it didn't happen all night

[Locke]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Darryl is in charge of posts on CP?

Wow.

He's the Captain now....

[Kickazzflames]

First of all.. We won a pretty good game today. But there is still lots of work to do. The boys did well and Pelletier looked good.

As for the other stuff...

What actually matters is what Darryl is saying to his team behind the closed doors. The over reaction to his troll in the media is maddening. It's like pent up rage that needed a trigger to set off and this was some peoples limit. (Or better.. people were begging for a trigger)

I never liked how Sutter is so slow to integrate youth into his lineups. However, if they can earn it, then they deserve it. I am not a coach in the NHL and definitely never won a cup, but in Sutter I still trust.

Truthfully, I think he was impressed with Pelletier's sheltered minutes and it most likely earned himself some more ice time. You can bet the house he wants to keep the kid hungry to earn more and he isn't one to compliment in the media. I get we are all frustrated how this season is mediocre so far, but a lot of players on this team need to find a way to elevate their games consistently to push up the standings.

This season was going to be an interesting one the moment we got Huberdeau and Weegar, but the media hype train set the bar insanely high especially after we just lost the best line in the NHL. We don't have that one line to rely consistently on yet, it's been rough to find one for over half this season already.

This angry mob with pitch forks mentality needs to take a deep breath and look at the positives. We spent a decade looking for a Coach like Sutter and now some people are ready to run him out of town. Our team has yet to find it's identity with the pieces we have, we have yet to find our Captain and we have yet to find ways to win the close games.

TLDR; Chill out, enjoy the win, put down the pitch forks.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

People get really, really personally offended by what other people post about on CP.

What’s interesting is how the content of other people’s posts has a profound effect on what I’m allowed to post. I wanted to post about the game but I can’t. I typed up this whole post referencing only on ice events and when I hit post reply it all got wiped out and replaced with Sutter talk. Very frustrating.

At least they aren’t posting filming locations for the Last of Us.

[Naitix]

I hope one of Pelletier or Ruzicka gets the top 9 spot soon, Lucic is waste of time in that spot at this point

[foofighter15]

He clearly had it planned well in advance. He started reaching for the stat list and his glasses while he got the reporter to repeat himself. This is dad humour through and through.

What are the odds the people who have been vocally against Sutter all year/since we got him/while people were calling for him are the ones who can’t laugh at the joke

Thanks for keeping me entertained until the ATL gets posted What are the odds the people have been vocally against Sutter all year/since we got him/while people were calling for him are the ones who can’t laugh at the joke

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I explained my point and considering you are saying he has no ego I thought it might be good to use the literal definition of ego in my response.

Your turn now though. Explain how he has no ego?

No self importance. He’s all about others and the team, with a side of brashness to unintelligent questions.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not about there being a story around Sutter’s comments. He made them, he knows. It’s about media and fans using it as another excuse to talk endlessly about their own personal gripes with Sutter. Just the same regurgitated nonsense by the same posters (not referring to you here, you’re always respectful even if i disagree) whining about Sutter. And honestly, is it necessary? If Pelletier was so great and so deserving of being the story, why hasn’t anyone even tried to make him the story? Sutter makes a comment and the media forget the kid’s game entirely. Fans don’t actually care about Pelletier, or Phillips, because if we’re being honest they aren’t the most exciting prospects. They’re just a route they can take to blame the coach, again, for whatever. Those players aren’t the story because they don’t make themselves the story when it’s game time. That’s on them. If the players want to be the story, be it. Gaudreau was. Tkachuk was. Kylington was.

Sutter came in and turned things around for a lot of players and helped them achieve career years. Treliving switches the players around, and now it’s Sutter’s fault that the new ones aren’t doing good? The same coach who came in and helped guys get better? Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, Gudbranson… these were Sutter guys, and they keep getting traded or shown the door. Guys like Lindholm, Zadorov, Kylington, Tanev, Mangiapane… all guys who have reached new levels with Sutter, and there are more. But Huberdeau plays poorly and Pelletier and Phillips do nothing with their ice time and Sutter is actually bad for players?

Don’t buy it.

Out of thanks, but thanks.

[jg13]

Worst PGT of the year and that's saying a lot.

Thought Andersson was brilliant this afternoon. He should certainly be going to the All Star Game.

1 goal, 2 assists, +4, 4 shots on goal, 27:55 ice time. True #1 numbers

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes, and maybe that says something?

There may be a bit of wisdom with the older crowd in not getting so bent out of shape over something so trivial. There are bigger fish to fry and are more important issues with this team.

But with so many issues among younger people, what someone says in a short clip is the entire encapsulation of who they are as a person, and we need to vilify them for how it came across and how it may make somebody feel. Obviously, words can matter, but I think actions are far more important. Just because someone doesn't say the things that make you feel all warm and gushy inside doesn't mean they aren't trying to do you a favor and make you better.

I see this all the time when I teach this younger generation. If I offer criticism that is direct and honest, I get kids that shut down and get all pissed off at me because they've never learned how to handle an honest critique. Every criticism levied against them has been whitewashed or their failures have been explained away. If they've done an adequate job they are praised far beyond what they actually earned. So I've learned over time to soften the blow by finding something, anything, positive to say to start even if there's almost nothing positive to say. But what is glaring to me is just how sensitive this young generation is today. I've had students who I've bent over backwards giving extra time outside of the class to teach and mentor, and gave lots of extensions or considerations for their work, and yet because in the end I accurately evaluated their work to be fairly poor (despite all my extra help), they had the balls to accuse me of "rooting for them to fail". Why the hell would I bother with so much of my time and attention if I wanted you to fail? Wouldn't I just do nothing instead?

Anyway...the point is people need to chill the #### out. Sutter isn't a monster. He's not perfect, and definitely makes some questionable decisions at times, but at no point would I think he's "rooting for his players to fail" the way some of you seem to want to label him.

I think you're digressing into your own concerns and conflating two different things.

No one is saying you can't critique. But I'm assuming you deliver your critiques directly about how they performed/learned their task. I assume it wasn't delivered in a form where you pretended not to know their name.

Sutter didn't critique the kid's play. He pretended not to know who he was.

It's a dumb, misguided way to take a shot at the media. He should have done it directly rather than involving Pelletier, who had no role in what Sutter is annoyed about.

[monkeyman]

Great effort all the way around today. Pelletier, showed enough to earn another game.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not about there being a story around Sutter’s comments. He made them, he knows. It’s about media and fans using it as another excuse to talk endlessly about their own personal gripes with Sutter. Just the same regurgitated nonsense by the same posters (not referring to you here, you’re always respectful even if i disagree) whining about Sutter. And honestly, is it necessary? If Pelletier was so great and so deserving of being the story, why hasn’t anyone even tried to make him the story? Sutter makes a comment and the media forget the kid’s game entirely. Fans don’t actually care about Pelletier, or Phillips, because if we’re being honest they aren’t the most exciting prospects. They’re just a route they can take to blame the coach, again, for whatever. Those players aren’t the story because they don’t make themselves the story when it’s game time. That’s on them. If the players want to be the story, be it. Gaudreau was. Tkachuk was. Kylington was.

Sutter came in and turned things around for a lot of players and helped them achieve career years. Treliving switches the players around, and now it’s Sutter’s fault that the new ones aren’t doing good? The same coach who came in and helped guys get better? Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, Gudbranson… these were Sutter guys, and they keep getting traded or shown the door. Guys like Lindholm, Zadorov, Kylington, Tanev, Mangiapane… all guys who have reached new levels with Sutter, and there are more. But Huberdeau plays poorly and Pelletier and Phillips do nothing with their ice time and Sutter is actually bad for players?

Don’t buy it.

I do think there's a cyclical nature to it, though. Kylington got that opportunity, he forced the issue, good for him. But part of the deal is you also have to ease guys along. You can't wait for every prospect to be as impactful as Gaudreau or Tkachuk right away or you won't promote anybody of note.

Also, I think another aspect that really needs to be litigated is how many of those guys you listed are taking big steps back this year despite the same head coach being at the helm. I give Sutter a fair amount of credit for last year but there's also something to be said for Tkachuk and Gaudreau patching a lot of holes in this team with their electrifying offence. Sutter put that combo together, credit to him. But how many of those career years were bolstered by Tkachuk and Gaudreau, who are no longer here? To what extent was Sutter elevated to the Jack Adams by that duo, and why hasn't he been able to identify a single impactful line combo with the star forward the team acquired to replace them? Sure, Huberdeau deserves (and has received) some scorn, but we're also looking at a situation where the head coach has settled for putting Huberdeau on a line with a fourth-line grinder with four goals in the last calendar year. Not optimal.

There are legitimate, nuanced questions to ask. And I think the reality with this entire conversation lies between the two extremes. A large segment of this thread reminds me of this meme, with folks taking any and all criticism of Darryl seemingly personally (also harkens back to the off-the-wall "defamation" thread a few weeks back). But it's also a little presumptuous to extrapolate all of this hand-wringing to the Coronato situation or to an exercise in psychoanalysis.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

At least they aren’t posting filming locations for the Last of Us.

The zombie scene at the media room in the Saddledome was insane.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not about there being a story around Sutter’s comments. He made them, he knows. It’s about media and fans using it as another excuse to talk endlessly about their own personal gripes with Sutter. Just the same regurgitated nonsense by the same posters (not referring to you here, you’re always respectful even if i disagree) whining about Sutter. And honestly, is it necessary? If Pelletier was so great and so deserving of being the story, why hasn’t anyone even tried to make him the story? Sutter makes a comment and the media forget the kid’s game entirely. Fans don’t actually care about Pelletier, or Phillips, because if we’re being honest they aren’t the most exciting prospects. They’re just a route they can take to blame the coach, again, for whatever. Those players aren’t the story because they don’t make themselves the story when it’s game time. That’s on them. If the players want to be the story, be it. Gaudreau was. Tkachuk was. Kylington was.

Sutter came in and turned things around for a lot of players and helped them achieve career years. Treliving switches the players around, and now it’s Sutter’s fault that the new ones aren’t doing good? The same coach who came in and helped guys get better? Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, Gudbranson… these were Sutter guys, and they keep getting traded or shown the door. Guys like Lindholm, Zadorov, Kylington, Tanev, Mangiapane… all guys who have reached new levels with Sutter, and there are more. But Huberdeau plays poorly and Pelletier and Phillips do nothing with their ice time and Sutter is actually bad for players?

Don’t buy it.

So you expect guys with 6 minutes to show more?

When the 4th line has Lucic and Ritchie they get 12 minutes.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I think you're digressing into your own concerns and conflating two different things.

No one is saying you can't critique. But I'm assuming you deliver your critiques directly about how they performed/learned their task. I assume it wasn't delivered in a form where you pretended not to know their name.

Sutter didn't critique the kid's play. He pretended not to know who he was.

It's a dumb, misguided way to take a shot at the media. He should have done it directly rather than involving Pelletier, who had no role in what Sutter is annoyed about.

No, it's not about his critique, it's about his lack of praise for a very pedestrian 6 minutes of play. People are losing their minds for him saying exactly what the player did out there and no more. Instead I hear this endless drivel that he doesn't like young players or doesn't handle them well.

His experiences at this point have told him to hedge his bets unless the player is a real standout, so he's doing just that. Seems prudent.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

No self importance. He’s all about others and the team, with a side of brashness to unintelligent questions.

See I think he's all about the team success, and I dont think he likes talking about individual players.

But I do think that he believes his role and coaching is the most important piece of the puzzle for this team to have success right now.

He's said stuff before like "I'm here to teach them how to win" like there is no way they could win without him, and made lots of comments about how the organization was doing things the wrong way before he got here. That's self importance.

And when it comes to coaching I dont think it's a bad thing. I want my coach to be assertive, confident, and a bit arrogant. Honestly thats the only way to get a bunch of 20 and 30 year old millionaires to buy in.

I would say Jon Cooper and Jared Bednar have egos and are a bit arrogant too. Once again not a bad thing for the coach to have.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

No, it's not about his critique, it's about his lack of praise for a very pedestrian 6 minutes of play.

It isn’t.