[GDT] Calgary Flames at St Louis Blues 6:00pm TV: SNW, BSMW - RADIO SN960

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

That's one small stride for man, one giant breakaway for mankind.

Is Mick Foley playing?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Where are you getting that from?

From what I can gather on the season Markstrom sits at a -7.84 GSAA, and Vladar a +0.41

I took that from Moneypuck.

Where did you get yours?

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I took that from Moneypuck.

Where did you get yours?

Interesting.

I go to naturalstattrick

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Vladar has started two games since the 10th of December. This will be Markstrom's 12th start tonight. Calgary lost six out of those 11 starts.

Vladar started against Seattle. This will be Markstrom's fifth straight start.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Vladar has points in seven straight starts and been the better goaltender from game one of the season until now...

I don't know about that. Looking at all their numbers, both goalies are pretty even. I suspect that people are much more keen to give Vladar the benefit-of-the-doubt. Fans by-and-large seem to have a higher affinity for back-up goalies; Vladar is young and improving, and a lot of Flames fans are eager to see him succeed. This all plays into shaping our perspectives of him.

Most of the time, I really don't think one or the other goalie gives the Flames the best chance to win. They have been playing pretty even for a while now.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Buff

Is Mick Foley playing?

Cactus Jack

Maybe even Dude Love.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Even better: Watch Sutter not even dress him.

The tweet Francis meant to type then must have been "...where he is the very first naked man ever to play in the NHL"

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Cactus Jack

Maybe even Dude Love.

Both would currently be an upgrade over Mangiapane.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't know about that. Looking at all their numbers, both goalies are pretty even. I suspect that people are much more keen to give Vladar the benefit-of-the-doubt. Fans by-and-large seem to have a higher affinity for back-up goalies; Vladar is young and improving, and a lot of Flames fans are eager to see him succeed. This all plays into shaping our perspectives of him.

Most of the time, I really don't think one or the other goalie gives the Flames the best chance to win. They have been playing pretty even for a while now.

Well we can argue all day about who's been the better goaltender to this point but the fact is that if you include tonight Vladar has started just 2 out of the past 14 games despite having a 5-0-2 record in his past 7 starts. That's simply not enough.

I don't even have an issue with Markstrom's game as of late. I just think Vladar has earned the right to play more, and the team is racking up points when he does play.

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1612906844275490816

Interesting comments. I recall him saying the exact same stuff last season that we didn't have that one player to take over a game so we had to play that way, and that was when we started rolling and scoring.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by D as in David

The tweet Francis meant to type then must have been "...where he is the very first naked man ever to play in the NHL"

That was Dino Ciccarelli

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1612906844275490816

Interesting comments. I recall him saying the exact same stuff last season that we didn't have that one player to take over a game so we had to play that way, and that was when we started rolling and scoring.

At least two things can explain why they had more success when under 30 SOG.

1- Means they are not trading chances with the opposition therefore playing the actual "Sutter style" of checking and suffocating the opposition like they did in the 1st period vs Isles.

2- They actually go to the net compared to when they get + 40 shots. More layers in front of goalie results in less shots on net as pucks get blocked, deflected or tipped wide by O player.
And when it does get through, creates havoc.

I am for shot volume but with bodies in front as most of the Flames forward have that skill and unfortunately only use it every third game.

My 2 cents!

[Tacoman]

Long range, no-traffic or bad angle shots are nothing more than a turnover in many cases. If we don't have dominant players as Sutter professes, we should be even more deliberate on creating actual scoring chances instead of just throwing the puck away. The Hanafin shot in OT against Chicago was such a perfect example of this concept.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Always Earned Never Given

At least two things can explain why they had more success when under 30 SOG.

1- Means they are not trading chances with the opposition therefore playing the actual "Sutter style" of checking and suffocating the opposition like they did in the 1st period vs Isles.

2- They actually go to the net compared to when they get + 40 shots. More layers in front of goalie results in less shots on net as pucks get blocked, deflected or tipped wide by O player.
And when it does get through, creates havoc.

I am for shot volume but with bodies in front as most of the Flames forward have that skill and unfortunately only use it every third game.

My 2 cents!

Isn't as simple as getting down early in games with lots of shots (pouring it on to catch up) vs buttoning it down with a lead and putting less pucks on net?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Vladar has points in seven straight starts and been the better goaltender from game one of the season until now. It certainly raises the question as to why he's played just twice in the past 31 days. That doesn't fit the schedule Sutter gave, nor does it track with their individual performances. The guy deserves to play more and at the very least on a semi consistent basis.

I would caution comparing value and stats of a backup who occasionally starts to that of an everyday starter. These are entirely different animals and to be fair, there isn't a lot separating either goalie over the last month and change.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Interesting.

I go to naturalstattrick

Oof, Markstrom is 60th, in High Danger Save Percentage. Wasn't a bias, my eye test was telling the truth.


OOF.

[FlamesAddiction]

It kind of makes sense that if a team is comfortably in the lead, they are going to be more patient and not be taking as many shots. Any time you take a shot, you are also potentially giving up possession and starting a rush the other way. I don't know if this is what has happened here, but I wouldn't be surprised if games where the Flames have less than 30 shots and win, are also games where they get a multi goal lead early enough that they can play more patiently and not have to force shots on net as often.

Like a lot of statistics, they likely don't tell you what will happen, but rather what did happen. The Flames were winning, so they shot less. When they were losing, they shot more.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Interesting.

I go to naturalstattrick

Are you both using Goals Saved Against Average or potentially is one of you using Goals Saved Against Expected?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't know about that. Looking at all their numbers, both goalies are pretty even. I suspect that people are much more keen to give Vladar the benefit-of-the-doubt. Fans by-and-large seem to have a higher affinity for back-up goalies; Vladar is young and improving, and a lot of Flames fans are eager to see him succeed. This all plays into shaping our perspectives of him.

Most of the time, I really don't think one or the other goalie gives the Flames the best chance to win. They have been playing pretty even for a while now.

I have to disagree at least a bit.

.894 vs .906? There is now a bit of a simple size and those are not similar. One is acceptable, one is frankly not. Especially as the bad number is over a much larger sample size, thus less likely to be skewed by a bad game or two.

I agree Markstrom has generally been playing quite well lately

But oh man, that last game against Chicago. A stinker

See the way he fell on his ass on the first goal?
See the juicy rebound he kicked out on the second?
See him not read or react to the pass at all on the third?

Again, on the numbers, considering W/L, Vladar picked up the loss, because of a single goal against, while Markstrom really handed Chicago the opportunity to win

So you can compare Vladar at 6-4-4 to Markstrom at 13-10-4 but two of Vladar’s OT losses came in such games where he relieved Markstrom, the Flames out scored the opponent on his watch, and couldn’t seal the deal in OT

And they don’t shelter Vladar. Markstrom gets the majority of starts against opponents below them in the standings

Look, I absolutely want to see both guys succeed. But they haven’t really had very comparable seasons. The numbers bear it out, they are right in front of us

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Tacoman

Long range, no-traffic or bad angle shots are nothing more than a turnover in many cases. If we don't have dominant players as Sutter professes, we should be even more deliberate on creating actual scoring chances instead of just throwing the puck away. The Hanafin shot in OT against Chicago was such a perfect example of this concept.

Some Flames forwards have an adversity to net front presence and until this is fixed, shot volume offense is going to be limited to individual quality. You will not generate tips or rebounds if the goalie can see the puck all the way on those 30 footers.

Hell, there was a moment vs the Hawks where Rasmus was winding up for a slapper and Mangiapane, who is already screening the goalie at the time, instead moves out of the way and gives the netminder a clear look at it. Sigh.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

See the way he fell on his ass on the first goal?
See the juicy rebound he kicked out on the second?
See him not read or react to the pass at all on the third?

The first one I'll give him a bit of a pass on as it was a weird deflection, but yes the other two were just horrible. With proper fundamentals he has better positioning and swallows that second goal up instead of kicking it out at a perfect angle for a rebound goal.

The third one he just gives up and doesn't even try to get across, so I'm not surprised he got the yank. I would have done likewise.