[News] Mangiapane, Kylington, Phillips file for salary arbitration. Tkachuk does not

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Someone please remind me. I thought the arbitrator had to pick one of the offers. The arbitrator can't split the difference - or is that in baseball?

That's baseball. Forces both parties to bring in a realistic offer. But it can strain a relationship a lot worse than hockey where both sides accept that the offer will be between each sides pitch.

[TheScorpion]

That's baseball, I believe. In hockey, it's usually a number between.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I wonder if the Devils would deal him? Would be an interesting add if a deal could be worked with him at $5.5Mx6 years? For one of our defensemen? A conditional first in 2024/2025?

If he’s getting 1 year around $5.5 mil can’t imagine 6 years he’s signing for $5.5 mil

I’m guessing if he wants $6.5 that 6 years is around $7 mil

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

If he’s getting 1 year around $5.5 mil can’t imagine 6 years he’s signing for $5.5 mil

I’m guessing if he wants $6.5 that 6 years is around $7 mil

I looked at the Devil's offer of $4.15 and saw the $5.5 has a pretty handsome bump and a lot closer to the $6.5 he was asking. His ask is intentionally high, so he and his reps are probably looking at the $5.5-$6M number themselves. On a longer-term guaranteed contract, that would be a reasonable number for all parties IMO.

[Steve Macfarlane]

Found the agent's words interesting and looked at them again this week as we get closer to arbitration.

Is Mangiapane willing to bet on himself again to get a fatter contract next summer? Agent was throwing 7s and 8s around if Mangiapane gets to 40-45 goals.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...rad-treliving/

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Steve Macfarlane

Found the agent's words interesting and looked at them again this week as we get closer to arbitration.

Is Mangiapane willing to bet on himself again to get a fatter contract next summer? Agent was throwing 7s and 8s around if Mangiapane gets to 40-45 goals.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...rad-treliving/

Yeah, I'd expect him to fully bet on himself.

Any multi-year deal Mang signs is $6M at the minimum - and the longer it goes the closer it gets to $7M or $7M+, I'd say. Dude scored 35 goals while only playing 15:44 a night.

Scoring 40 goals = $9M AAV in this league, easy - especially when your underlying numbers are as strong as Mang's are.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's baseball, I believe. In hockey, it's usually a number between.

I recall reviewing these awards a while back, and it was exactly the middle every time.
Most people I speak to prefer the baseball version; it makes both sides come in with legitimate/realistic numbers.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I recall reviewing these awards a while back, and it was exactly the middle every time.
Most people I speak to prefer the baseball version; it makes both sides come in with legitimate/realistic numbers.

Do the team and player submit their numbers at the same time, or does one get to see the other’s first?

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, I'd expect him to fully bet on himself.

Any multi-year deal Mang signs is $6M at the minimum - and the longer it goes the closer it gets to $7M or $7M+, I'd say. Dude scored 35 goals while only playing 15:44 a night.

Scoring 40 goals = $9M AAV in this league, easy - especially when your underlying numbers are as strong as Mang's are.

He also did nothing in the playoffs, which I’m sure factors into it.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by mdubz

He also did nothing in the playoffs, which I’m sure factors into it.

He put up 6 points in 12 games, that's not "nothing" when you aren't on PP1 and again - only playing 15:35 a night.

[BarDown]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do the team and player submit their numbers at the same time, or does one get to see the other’s first?

At the same time. The briefs used to be physically exchanged, but I'm not sure if that's changed over the last couple years with covid, etc. The exchange happens 48 hours prior to the hearing.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Steve Macfarlane

Found the agent's words interesting and looked at them again this week as we get closer to arbitration.

Is Mangiapane willing to bet on himself again to get a fatter contract next summer? Agent was throwing 7s and 8s around if Mangiapane gets to 40-45 goals.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...rad-treliving/

FWIW Dobber's salary projection algorithm had Mangiapagne at $4.155M AAV.

[devo22]

some other arbitration cases:

Yakov Trenin asked for 1 x $2.4m, Nashville offered 2 x $1.35m. Arbitrator then awarded 2 x $1.7m yesterday.

Lawson Crouse asks for $4m, Arizona's offer is $2.5m. The hearing is on Monday.

[Mull]

Dumb question

Let’s say I am a RFA with arbitration rights.

I don’t file for arbitration and neither does the team.

Does this mean I am just negotiating with them directly and if nothing is agreed to I simply don’t play?

Is this what Johnny did years back when he started the season late?

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by devo22

some other arbitration cases:

Yakov Trenin asked for 1 x $2.4m, Nashville offered 2 x $1.35m. Arbitrator then awarded 2 x $1.7m yesterday.

Lawson Crouse asks for $4m, Arizona's offer is $2.5m. The hearing is on Monday.

Would love Crouse on this team.

One of the fastest players in the league and hits like a truck.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Mull

Dumb question

Let’s say I am a RFA with arbitration rights.

I don’t file for arbitration and neither does the team.

Does this mean I am just negotiating with them directly and if nothing is agreed to I simply don’t play?

Is this what Johnny did years back when he started the season late?

yeah if you have arbitration rights but don't file for it, I think you're just a normal RFA. Meaning you can sign your QO or negotiate with your team to agree a contract - if you do neither, you don't play. If you can't come to an agreement prior to December 1, you have to sit out the whole season. It's very rare that it drags out that long, but William Nylander came close to that a couple of years ago ... IIRC he and the Leafs only came to an agreement hours before the deadline.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by devo22

yeah if you have arbitration rights but don't file for it, I think you're just a normal RFA. Meaning you can sign your QO or negotiate with your team to agree a contract - if you do neither, you don't play. If you can't come to an agreement prior to December 1, you have to sit out the whole season. It's very rare that it drags out that long, but William Nylander came close to that a couple of years ago ... IIRC he and the Leafs only came to an agreement hours before the deadline.

So if the team filed for arbitration does the player have to go?

Why wouldn’t the team file in the Nylander case if so- hoping for more then a 1 year contract?

[Sylvanfan]

^^^
I believe the player can still negotiate with any other team in the league too. As soon as a team, or player select arbitration, the player can no longer negotiate directly with other teams.

Gaudreau was a unique case because by burning the first year of his ELC with one game, he had no arbitration rights, and other teams could not sign him to an offer sheet. So he had no leverage outside of holding out at the time.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

^^^
I believe the player can still negotiate with any other team in the league too. As soon as a team, or player select arbitration, the player can no longer negotiate directly with other teams.

Gaudreau was a unique case because by burning the first year of his ELC with one game, he had no arbitration rights, and other teams could not sign him to an offer sheet. So he had no leverage outside of holding out at the time.

Wait so when you decline arbitration you can talk to other teams like a ufa? Doesn’t seem right?

Would your team still get compensation same as offer sheet? I thought offersheets were “blind” meaning you couldn’t talk to the player first

[Sylvanfan]

When neither party opts for arbitration, I believe the player continues to be a RFA just as before.

I believe that's what happened with the Flames ROR offer sheet. He signed the offer during the season. Difference there was he had played in another league and that brought in the whole waivers question.