Everything kind of lines up with the other poster's info in that I was told the Flames were a bit taken aback at the $11 million range of the counter. I had thought a counter offer was a good thing and this would get done but I hadn't heard the Murray Edwards piece, and if that's correct that does have me feeling a little less optimistic.
I figured Johnny's camp knew they had the Flames in a tough spot where they would overpay because the team wouldn't want it to come out afterwards that Johnny was willing to stay but the Flames wouldn't meet his number (the number also doesn't seem that unreasonable to me given how well he played last season in which he finished 2nd in scoring). But if Edwards is really involved then he seems like just the kind of business man that might walk away if he feels he's losing a deal.
I still feel this gets done though. There are always those pressure points that get each side feeling squirmy at different points of a negotiation, and it's always full of what-ifs until the handshake is made.
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The Isles are a dark horse. They’d have to move out cap (Palmieri + maybe Bailey), but they’re looking for offence, and Lou plays things close to the vest.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Everything kind of lines up with the other poster's info in that I was told the Flames were a bit taken aback at the $11 million range of the counter. I had thought a counter offer was a good thing and this would get done but I hadn't heard the Murray Edwards piece, and if that's correct that does have me feeling a little less optimistic.
I figured Johnny's camp knew they had the Flames in a tough spot where they would overpay because the team wouldn't want it to come out afterwards that Johnny was willing to stay but the Flames wouldn't meet his number (the number also doesn't seem that unreasonable to me given how well he played last season in which he finished 2nd in scoring). But if Edwards is really involved then he seems like just the kind of business man that might walk away if he feels he's losing a deal.
I still feel this gets done though. There are always those pressure points that get each side feeling squirmy at different points of a negotiation, and it's always full of what-ifs until the handshake is made.
Honest to god, after Panarin got 11.7 million a year after an 87 point season, if the Flames were surprised that Johnny wanted something north of 11 then they just don’t know the market. Or they think Calgary is a bigger destination than Manhattan.
To me it's 50/50 between NJD and Calgary. The Devils check all the boxes.
East coast, near Johnny's home.
Cap space available
Some desire to open their contention window
Need wingers more than centres
They are the threat to me.
One thing that I keep landing on, though, is Johnny signing in NJ is kinda like someone who grew up a Flames fan signing in Edm. Isn't it? Like he's not really from NJ... I mean, yes, technically he's from NJ, but he considers himself as being from Philly. He grew up a Flyers fan, loves the Eagles, etc. I seem to remember him saying he hated the Devils as a kid (or at least they were a big rival or something like that).
Would he really sign with them?
Spoiler!
1. Born here
2. Grew up here
3. Cheered for these guys
4. Devils play here
The only benefit NJ has is that it's closer to his family than Calgary is. There's no "coming home" or playing for his "home town team" aspect to it.
Last edited by FanIn80; 07-11-2022 at 12:21 PM.
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Honest to god, after Panarin got 11.7 million a year after an 87 point season, if the Flames were surprised that Johnny wanted something north of 11 then they just don’t know the market. Or they think Calgary is a bigger destination than Manhattan.
We may never know for sure, but if us losing Johnny comes down to Murray's failure to adjust to the economic realities of the league or to his way of negotiating (like a baby), then this will be a tough pill.
Up until now he's been a cap spending owner and my perception is it is the GM's job to allocate. If this isn't true, god help us all.
To me it's 50/50 between NJD and Calgary. The Devils check all the boxes.
East coast, near Johnny's home.
Cap space available
Some desire to open their contention window
Need wingers more than centres
They are the threat to me.
This seems logical, but I don’t think the Flyers are going to be logical - and Johnny’s desire to play with Hayes, DeAngelo and wear the Flyers uniform may just sway him that way.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Flyers trade away 2 players for less than solid returns in Provorov and Konecny. Sanheim-DeAngelo being their 1-2 punch on LHD, and Konecny being a player they could move and get some sort of asset back rather than having to pay out an asset to move JVR.
It’s free agency. Things may not make sense at the end of the day
This may be a dumb question but if it is 50/50 between NJ and Calgary. How important is #13 for him? He won't be getting that number in NJ. I know pro sports players are really particular with their number.
Massive assumption on my part but there are 2 options here.
Go home, get a new number, potentially contend eventually, be closer to family.
Go to Calgary who is in their contending window and cement your legacy and have your number hanging in the rafters after your career is over.
I agree with Jiri, I think its a 50/50 between NJ and Calgary at this point.
It sounds like teams that could potentially have been in the running are slowly dwindling which is obviously a huge plus to the Flames.
Honest to god, after Panarin got 11.7 million a year after an 87 point season, if the Flames were surprised that Johnny wanted something north of 11 then they just don’t know the market. Or they think Calgary is a bigger destination than Manhattan.
Panarin was a year younger than Johhny and signed for one year shorter. It's hardly insulting to offer Johhny in the 80M dollar range - especially factoring in his previous two seasons where he was a 0.85 pts/g player..
If I am Calgary I'd rather sign Gaudreau to a 6 year/11.7M deal than an 8 year/10-10.5M deal.
One thing that I keep landing on, though, is Johnny signing in NJ is kinda like someone who grew up a Flames fan signing in Edm. Isn't it? Like he's not really from NJ... I mean, yes, technically he's from NJ, but he considers himself as being from Philly. He grew up a Flyers fan, loves the Eagles, etc. I seem to remember him saying he hated the Devils as a kid (or at least they were a big rival or something like that).
One thing that I keep landing on, though, is Johnny signing in NJ is kinda like someone who grew up a Flames fan signing in Edm. Isn't it? Like he's not really from NJ... I mean, yes, technically he's from NJ, but he considers himself as being from Philly. He grew up a Flyers fan, loves the Eagles, etc. I seem to remember him saying he hated the Devils as a kid (or at least they were a big rival or something like that).
Would he really sign with them?
I think PIT are the real rivals (EDM); NYR might be more equivalent to VAN...there was probably heat with NJD in the late 90s, but not many series since. Might be more equivalent to CGY vs. ANA
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I’m confident that if Gaudreau leaves it won’t be a money issue. If he’s gone it’s because he wants to play somewhere else. And this decision was probably already made if it’s the way it’s going to happen.
Except everything we know points to it being a money issue. Otherwise the Gaudreau camp would not even be negotiating.
I’d go as high as 11.5 if it came to it… guys like Johnny are a unicorn and to pick him in the 4th round and have an opportunity to make him a franchise legend?? The jersey and merch sales alone over not just the next 8 years, but the coming decades with a player like Johnny make it an easy decision as far as I’m concerned. Especially with the cap set to increase by a great amount in the coming seasons, 11.5 will become the standard for players of Johnny’s calibre.
Ya, a site called Philly hockey now saying he wants to sign with the Flyers, shocking! This is no more newsworthy than a HF board Flyers fan saying the same thing. Not sure why anyone would thank this post.
Can the Flyers sign him and then work on shedding salary to get cap compliant?
Or do you have to have the cap room at the time of signing?
How much over the cap can a team go in the off season? If any
If the flyers overplay their hand and sign Johnny to a big time deal ahead of them clearing the significant cap space required to sign Johnny it puts them in between a rock and a hard place going forward when trying to clear the cap space heading into the season. Teams will know this and will put the squeeze on Philly who would most likely end up spending a higher cost to clear the space. The next 24 hours I think is their window otherwise I can’t see them being able to bring Johnny on without paying an even bigger price than his UFA price tag.
This seems logical, but I don’t think the Flyers are going to be logical - and Johnny’s desire to play with Hayes, DeAngelo and wear the Flyers uniform may just sway him that way.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Flyers trade away 2 players for less than solid returns in Provorov and Konecny. Sanheim-DeAngelo being their 1-2 punch on LHD, and Konecny being a player they could move and get some sort of asset back rather than having to pay out an asset to move JVR.
It’s free agency. Things may not make sense at the end of the day
Deangelo is RHD and has always played right-side AFAIK. There are rumours that Ellis may be out a while longer, which is the only way the Deangelo trade begins to make even a little bit of sense.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had a deal in place to move JVR for cheap/free, but don't want to pull them trigger unless it's actually necessary (he could have good value at TDL).
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