[OOT] Game one of the Stanley Cup Final!

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Weitz

First Stanley cup final game just ended in OT and you guys still can’t stop talking about McDavid.

One guy, ONE, couldn't praising McDavid like Ron did. The rest of us are just rebutting his praise.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Weitz

First Stanley cup final game just ended in OT and you guys still can’t stop talking about McDavid.

and what are you doing? scanning the internet for mentions of McDavid?

besides 95% of us are saying how overhyped he is


Flames were out in round two and you can't stop coming to a Flames message board

[2macinnis2]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

One guy, ONE, couldn't praising McDavid like Ron did. The rest of us are just rebutting his praise.

To be fair, I came on here to criticize Makar. I guess I don’t see what everyone else does with respect to his play in his own. Don’t even remember how McDavid came up.

Anyways, that was a great game.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Weitz

First Stanley cup final game just ended in OT and you guys still can’t stop talking about McDavid.

Rich coming from a guy that can't bear discussing hockey related things from his own team's board and continually gravitates here year-round, year after year.

Then again, self awareness was never the strong suit of grease fans

It's being discussed because of the Ron Maclean lay off rumour, and how much McDavid discussion is tied primarily to him felating ad nauseum.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

There’s no way he can reliably take away a top offensive player, as exhibited by McDavid’s evisceration of that team.

7 points and minus 4 while playing 25 minutes per game and getting swept is an evisceration?

Makar had 9 points and was +4. That seems more like the definition.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

Controversial view(?): Makar is not that good at defense. I’ve been paying a lot of attention to what is said about this guy, esp as a generational type D. He has awesome offensive skills and instincts. A super Phil Housley. In his end, he looks lost, and soft some times. There’s no way he can reliably take away a top offensive player, as exhibited by McDavid’s evisceration of that team.

Anyways, he’s very young and obviously has tons of room to grow, and probably he will. Right now, he’s not really great at defense, which makes him far from the NHL’s best player.

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

McDavid isn’t a defenseman.

He’s the game’s best player and it isn’t even remotely close.

He forced the game’s second best player (MacKinnon) into a defense-first role.

People will say whatever they will, and I hate the losers from Edmonton as much as anyone, but doesn’t change how ridiculously good McDavid is.

On Makar, he’s a great player, but it feels like he can be pressured in his end into errors/turnovers more than you would see out of HOF defenseman in their prime (for more recent comps say Lidstrom or Niedermayer). Again, I’m acknowledging he’s not yet in his prime, I’m saying he will likely improve. But where things stand RIGHT NOW, he has some real flaws in his own end game IMO, so he’s definitely not the NHL’s best player RIGHT NOW.

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

To be fair, I came on here to criticize Makar. I guess I don’t see what everyone else does with respect to his play in his own. Don’t even remember how McDavid came up.

Anyways, that was a great game.

You brought it up, first in your criticizing Makar post then a second post a full blown praising McDavid. And on your reply to my reply to your praising McDavid, you only focus on me calling you a cosset Oilers fan and not my rebuttal to you saying McDavid the best in the game. Well anyway, Makar isn't yet the best in the game and most certainly McDavid is not the best player in the game, Sidney Crosby is, IMHO.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The no question greatest player in hockey should have a win past the 2nd round in 7 years in the league IMO
Seems there is more to hockey than points

If I had the #1 pick in a redraft of the league I would pick Makar and wouldn't lose any sleep over it

Especially when the league rigs it to get you further in the playoffs, which is extremely obvious.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by chedder

7 points and minus 4 while playing 25 minutes per game and getting swept is an evisceration?

Makar had 9 points and was +4. That seems more like the definition.

That pretty much ends any debate

[GioforPM]

Makar’s defensive stats are good, especially for an offensive defenceman. The whole premise of “not that good on defence” is untrue. And saying McDavid doesn’t have to be good on defence to be the “best player” just because he’s a forward is also laughable. He’s a centre,and therefore just as responsible as a Dman for goal suppression.

[edslunch]

Logged in to pages of discussion about Makar's defence, then checked the score expecting to see a blowout loss or a major gaffe by Makar. lol

[2macinnis2]

Originally Posted by chedder

7 points and minus 4 while playing 25 minutes per game and getting swept is an evisceration?

Makar had 9 points and was +4. That seems more like the definition.

I don’t feel like I’m defending the Oilers in any way when I say the team around him (and strategy/utilization) is so bad that you can’t only look at the stat sheet or game outcome when accounting for how good that guy is. Watch the games. It’s clear he’s the best.

There are plenty of times in his career where Lebron was the best player on the court but his team lost the series. McDavid is Lebron.

I’ve been a Flames fan in large part because of how much I hated Gretzky and the Oilers growing up. But I think I can be objective.

You saw the expressions on Darryl and Tkachuk after games. Give them the choice of McDavid or any other player on Earth for one season, they prob wouldn’t think twice. They aren’t gonna say that about 2022 Makar.

Obviously it’s subjective to large degree in determine best players, greatest of all times, etc etc. but to me it’s clear McDavid is one of the best hockey players I’ve seen in the 35 years I’ve followed the sport. MacKinnon, and more so Makar… not yet IMO.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

I don’t feel like I’m defending the Oilers in any way when I say the team around him (and strategy/utilization) is so bad that you can’t only look at the stat sheet or game outcome when accounting for how good that guy is. Watch the games. It’s clear he’s the best.

There are plenty of times in his career where Lebron was the best player on the court but his team lost the series. McDavid is Lebron.

I’ve been a Flames fan in large part because of how much I hated Gretzky and the Oilers growing up. But I think I can be objective.

You saw the expressions on Darryl and Tkachuk after games. Give them the choice of McDavid or any other player on Earth for one season, they prob wouldn’t think twice. They aren’t gonna say that about 2022 Makar.

Obviously it’s subjective to large degree in determine best players, greatest of all times, etc etc. but to me it’s clear McDavid is one of the best hockey players I’ve seen in the 35 years I’ve followed the sport. MacKinnon, and more so Makar… not yet IMO.

Until McDavid wins hardware that's not of the individual type he is not Lebron. As I said in another thread, you want to make a comparison to other sports then McDavid is Dan Marino.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

McDavid is Lebron.

[Shazam]

I thought Makar made some defensive mistakes at the start of the year.

He's gotten way better, mostly his positioning.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Maybe Lebron in Cleveland the first time, you know the time before he left and tore the heart out of the city on national TV.

[savardandjokinen]

Crosby is Lebron. Not comparing personalities comparing the athletes

McDavid is Giannis without the championship

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

I don’t feel like I’m defending the Oilers in any way when I say the team around him (and strategy/utilization) is so bad that you can’t only look at the stat sheet or game outcome when accounting for how good that guy is. Watch the games. It’s clear he’s the best.

There are plenty of times in his career where Lebron was the best player on the court but his team lost the series. McDavid is Lebron.

I’ve been a Flames fan in large part because of how much I hated Gretzky and the Oilers growing up. But I think I can be objective.

You saw the expressions on Darryl and Tkachuk after games. Give them the choice of McDavid or any other player on Earth for one season, they prob wouldn’t think twice. They aren’t gonna say that about 2022 Makar.

Obviously it’s subjective to large degree in determine best players, greatest of all times, etc etc. but to me it’s clear McDavid is one of the best hockey players I’ve seen in the 35 years I’ve followed the sport. MacKinnon, and more so Makar… not yet IMO.

Yes, yes they are. And yes we did.

You're pedestalizing McDavid more than he deserves to this point.

He's elite at only 50 percent of the total game.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Until McDavid wins hardware that's not of the individual type he is not Lebron. As I said in another thread, you want to make a comparison to other sports then McDavid is Dan Marino.

McDavid's individual ability has never been the issue. A true GOAT/championship player has the ability to elevate the team around him. McDavid, if anything, seems to have a negative effect on those around him. He's 100% the type of guy to demand all the good opportunities and then roll his eyes when the lesser players, who are walking on egg shells, don't deliver.

The whole structure of the Oilers is absurd. 2 forwards getting 25 minutes a night and all the PP opportunities and not much else. When has that been a winning formula in the NHL? What teams have won a Stanley Cup that way?

I just cannot believe the Flames lost so badly to that crap.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by blankall

McDavid's individual ability has never been the issue. A true GOAT/championship player has the ability to elevate the team around him. McDavid, if anything, seems to have a negative effect on those around him. He's 100% the type of guy to demand all the good opportunities and then roll his eyes when the lesser players, who are walking on egg shells, don't deliver.

The whole structure of the Oilers is absurd. 2 forwards getting 25 minutes a night and all the PP opportunities and not much else. When has that been a winning formula in the NHL? What teams have won a Stanley Cup that way?

I just cannot believe the Flames lost so badly to that crap.

He carried a crap roster to the WCF. If McDavid can play that many minutes a night, he should be. That feels smart. I often have wondered why the Flames don't play their top guys more minutes. Us Flames fans are gonna have to get used to the fact we will have to compete against one of the most talented individuals to ever play the game for a decade to come

[blankall]

Originally Posted by colbym72

He carried a crap roster to the WCF. If McDavid can play that many minutes a night, he should be. That feels smart. I often have wondered why the Flames don't play their top guys more minutes. Us Flames fans are gonna have to get used to the fact we will have to compete against one of the most talented individuals to ever play the game for a decade to come

More minutes for Gaudreau wouldn't equate to more point IMO. Gaudreau doesn't have the kind of impact that wears another team down. It's best to save his best energy for the prime opportunities.

The Oilers barely got past the Kings, and it was more a Flames collapse than great Oilers play that got the Oilers through the 2nd round. As soon as the Oilers faced a team playing like true contenders they were swept.