Brad Treliving needs to go

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sean Monahan isn't getting bought out. He has one more year left on his deal after this season and is basically on a 40 point pace despite playing five on five in the bottom half of the roster.

I agree that Monny is not getting bought out based on the evidence to date, as it's too incomplete.

He's only played 9 games and is coming off surgery.

Let's give him 40 games and see how he adjusts. He seems to be looking better in his last games.

He has one season left on his deal after this season, and I fully expect the Flames will give him that amount of time to see how he recovers.

The only way they would buy him out is if Calgary actually has a great season and they want to use his cap space to make another run. And assuming Monny is really bad and unlikely to improve.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If the Flames want to keep Tkachuk, Mangiapane, and Gaudreau they need to create cap space. If Monahan can’t get off the 4th line is that the best use of cap space? This team will be hard pressed to keep this group together.

If they have to move Monahan there will be teams willing to take him.

Reduced return and/or salary retention are both options before you'd buy a player out that could score 20 goals this season.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by mdubz

He isn't playing 4th line minutes. He has the 5th most ice team amongst forwards.

He gets first unit PP time so that helps with his scoring (does he have an even strength point this year).

I know this team doesn’t have defined 2-4th lines but playing with Lucic and Lewis it is clear these are not the top 6 guys.

Only reason I could see him being a buyout is because this team is not in a great cap spot next year when they have their 3 best wingers needing new deals and raises all around.

[Strange Brew]

I am not going to post my feelings about whether Treliving should be fired. I have made my views known in the offseason and replacing him at this exact moment is not going to happen.

But I am bracing for the usual arguments about how you don't want your GM making a deal for the sake of it, no deal is better than a bad deal etc.

But thing is, the GM position is like every other position in pro hockey. It's a competition and more often than not, you need to be better than the other person if you expect your team to be successful. Treliving is responsible for his decisions on the players he is pursuing. Stone, Zucker, Kadri, Eichel (and some goalies in there too IIRC). He obviously recognizes a need on this team but hasn't been able to get it done.

[Iginla]

I just find it funny that a lot of the same posters that complained that our prospect pool is empty were prepared to trade 3 of our top ones for a player who might never play again.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So 4.75M for a guy who has averaged 45pts per 82 games over his career is a value contract?

I do not think Tkachuk was offered recently if he was it was back in the summer

Tuch is only 25. Would you like Mangiapane at that contract? I would.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Sean Monahan isn't getting bought out. He has one more year left on his deal after this season and is basically on a 40 point pace despite playing five on five in the bottom half of the roster.

He's not getting bought out but it's becoming increasingly clear that as an asset he's trended to negative value because of his play vs pay. From what I have heard the Flames have been trying to move him for years now but it's pretty clear the rest of the league has a good read on him. It's not Brad's fault he declined nor is it his fault that he can't trade him. It's just one of those things where some players decline faster than others as it's not an exact science.

[DeluxeMoustache]

For years I have been thinking there were quite a few really good players here, and that coaching was a real problem. I wanted to see what this team could do with a top coach. Finally they got one.

I don’t mind being able to see how this plays out.

Also, after easing his way in to the year, Monahan has 4 pts in his last 4 games.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If they have to move Monahan there will be teams willing to take him.

Reduced return and/or salary retention are both options before you'd buy a player out that could score 20 goals this season.

There are plenty of players on this team that aren't making north of $6M that would outscore Monahan if they were given his PP1 spot - only hitting 20 goals in that role, considering his limitations as a 200 foot player would be downright dismal. He has looked like hot garbage for the better part of the last 2 seasons and certainly isn't looking to be any better 10 games into this season. Monahan is untradeable unless it is a salary dump part of a bigger deal or unless you're bribing another GM to do it by way of picks.

Are you suggesting Treliving hasn't explored moving him yet, and that there has been no brick wall in doing so? If he hasn't gone down this road yet things are even worse in this team's front office than they appear.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I am not going to post my feelings about whether Treliving should be fired. I have made my views known in the offseason and replacing him at this exact moment is not going to happen.

But I am bracing for the usual arguments about how you don't want your GM making a deal for the sake of it, no deal is better than a bad deal etc.

But thing is, the GM position is like every other position in pro hockey. It's a competition and more often than not, you need to be better than the other person if you expect your team to be successful. Treliving is responsible for his decisions on the players he is pursuing. Stone, Zucker, Kadri, Eichel (and some goalies in there too IIRC). He obviously recognizes a need on this team but hasn't been able to get it done.

Stone wasn't going to sign in Calgary so I don't count him. Can you say that the team would be in a better place today with Zucker or Kadri? I don't know if either of those players move the needle that much as they are both more of the same good but not elite talents the organization already has plenty of. Eichel isn't as cut and dry because of his neck issue, surgery, and the fact that it's pretty clear the Flames didn't have a single prospect in their system that the Sabres liked better than Krebs.

[neo45]

- on pace for 36 points despite being on the first powerplay unit and 5th in ice time for forwards
- worst plus minus on the team
- 47% face offs
- still not playing physical or moving his feet

A buyout won’t happen because of optics and dead cap, but I don’t see what teams are going to be lining up for this guy at his current cap hit when he’s playing like this

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's not getting bought out but it's becoming increasingly clear that as an asset he's trended to negative value because of his play vs pay. From what I have heard the Flames have been trying to move him for years now but it's pretty clear the rest of the league has a good read on him. It's not Brad's fault he declined nor is it his fault that he can't trade him. It's just one of those things where some players decline faster than others as it's not an exact science.

Negative value?

The Flames haven't moved him because they don't want to do so at a reduced rate. But that doesn't mean that he can't be moved, or that he has negative value.

Contracts have all gone up. His 6.25M (or whatever it is) isn't a huge issue if he puts up 20 goals and 50 points this year.

If he puts up less than you retain and move him in the summer.

But he doesn't have negative value.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by neo45

- on pace for 36 points despite being on the first powerplay unit and 5th in ice time for forwards
- worst plus minus on the team
- 47% face offs
- still not playing physical or moving his feet

A buyout won’t happen because of optics and dead cap, but I don’t see what teams are going to be lining up for this guy at his current cap hit when he’s playing like this

He is currently coming back from a major surgery and 9 games is a small sample size. Give Monahan a little more time and I’m sure we will see more from him soon enough.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So 4.75M for a guy who has averaged 45pts per 82 games over his career is a value contract?

I do not think Tkachuk was offered recently if he was it was back in the summer

When will you be providing the same look at Coleman's contract ? How much have the Flames committed to the back side of a career 35 pt / 82 games player?

Yes Tuch is a value contract.

Lindholm is just under a 53 pt /82 game career to add some perspective on how good 45 per 82 is. Tuch's 33 pts in 66 playoff games would add to his value.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Negative value?

The Flames haven't moved him because they don't want to do so at a reduced rate. But that doesn't mean that he can't be moved, or that he has negative value.

Contracts have all gone up. His 6.25M (or whatever it is) isn't a huge issue if he puts up 20 goals and 50 points this year.

If he puts up less than you retain and move him in the summer.

But he doesn't have negative value.

Yes he does. Negative value means that the Flames would need to take an underachieving player at a high salary in return (Neal for Lucic for example). No team is giving up picks or prospects for Monahan or he wouldn't be a Flame today. The Flames will only get back a similar underperforming player.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yes he does. Negative value means that the Flames would need to take an underachieving player at a high salary in return (Neal for Lucic for example). No team is giving up picks or prospects for Monahan or he wouldn't be a Flame today.

Agree to disagree then.

I think the Flames were looking for non-injured Monahan value and didn't get it.

If they wanted a quality player or a first it wasn't happening. But that doesn't mean you have to take a bad player/contract to move a 20 goal scorer with one year left.

You take less ... say a third, or you retain and get a second.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

He is currently coming back from a major surgery and 9 games is a small sample size. Give Monahan a little more time and I’m sure we will see more from him soon enough.

It could turn around throughout the season but I don’t think significantly

I think the league and even our team has realized that Monahan can’t do heavy lifting

[1qqaaz]

Would Monahan have more value at next year's trade deadline as a rental?

[talladega.25]

BT has shown some ineptitude and I can't see how he keeps his job if the flames miss the playoffs or get bounced in the first round.
Summer 2021- 3rd and 4th round picks for Zadorov and Pittlick. Like thats kinda bad ngl.
Coleman was a decent add, but Richardson and Lewis are less than ideal. Gudbranson is an overpay too.

Didn't sign or trade Gaudreau and now he has 5 team ntc and is inching closer to FA. Matthew T is going to be overpaid no matter what. 1yr or longer.

What is the direction here?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Agree to disagree then.

I think the Flames were looking for non-injured Monahan value and didn't get it.

If they wanted a quality player or a first it wasn't happening. But that doesn't mean you have to take a bad player/contract to move a 20 goal scorer with one year left.

You take less ... say a third, or you retain and get a second.

The list of team's that would find any value in the game Monahan brings to the table (maybe flirting with 20 goals so long as he doesn't have to do any heavy lifting and that is even a reach if you ask me) is going to be extremely short.

Even if the Flames were to retain $2M of his salary to move him, there are dozens of players in that salary range that would be more desirable that can at least move the needle in a variety of ways besides cleaning up garbage in the slot (if he get's 1st PP unit time).