Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What would change on August 20th that they couldn't agree to today or last week? The longer the negotiations take, the less incentive for Gaudreau to sign. It seems like when players get into their last year without a contract extension that most end up seeing things through to free agency. Landeskog re-signing in Denver seemed like a no-brainer a year ago but the longer you drag things out the better the odds of losing the player to free agency. For all we know they have a deal agreed on that will be announced later this week but if that doesn't happen then all bets are off.

They could have the framework of a deal hammered out right now for all we know but they need to iron out the clauses, bonuses, yearly salary etc. Brad can shift his focus to the trades and signings that are more time sensitive and when that dies down iron out the items on Johnny’s deal and announce it.

I prefer to hear about an extension at 10AM tomorrow or a trade prior to that but I won’t get really concerned until we approach camp without a deal or hear that negotiations have broken off

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yeah players have never come back from injuries

Should Monahan just quit now?

Seriously? No comparison. What’s the rush ? Let’s see if he gets healthy first. The Sabres are looking for a sucker to buy damaged goods at a premium price!

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

They could have the framework of a deal hammered out right now for all we know but they need to iron out the clauses, bonuses, yearly salary etc. Brad can shift his focus to the trades and signings that are more time sensitive and when that dies down iron out the items on Johnny’s deal and announce it.

I prefer to hear about an extension at 10AM tomorrow or a trade prior to that but I won’t get really concerned until we approach camp without a deal or hear that negotiations have broken off

Also the Flames may want to have his deal done and quiet while negotiating free agent signings early tomorrow. A lot of good reasons to delay release of any new deal for johnny or Tkachuk.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by flambers

Flames are basically missing a top line, they have a good second line.



Of course the right wing as you mentioned is a huge issue.



Defense has issues, they also need a #1c,



Flames in my view are below average in terms of depth.

I disagree. Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk is a first line. Eichel would be an upgrade on Lindholm, but let's give that man some respect.

Lindholm - 47 points - 18th ranked C
Gaudreau - 49 points - 12th ranked LW
Tkachuk - 43 points - 19th ranked among LW and would have been 12th among RW

Literally none of those players are league wide second liners and this was after an awful season where the lines were a mess. I'll accept that they aren't elite first line players which is why I would be in favor of an Eichel acquisition, but they are firmly first line talent.

I'd also say that Mangiapane, Monahan, and Backlund are league wide top 6 players too. After that you have some slots open but they are bottom six and probably 4th line.

In a scenario where the Flames get Eichel for futures you have a top 9 of: Eichel, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Monahan, Backlund, Dube, and Pitlick/Lucic. That's a very strong group of forwards.

@lanny - You have to do mental gymnastics to catastrophize things. If you don't like Dube at C put him on RW where he usually plays and either move Pitlick to 4C or leave that spot open for a free agent or rookie. No issue at all. No back up? No problem, there are about 20 NHL quality free agent goalies floating around. Many teams haven't signed a back up yet.

As for the farm system, the Flames have two draft picks in Wolf and Parsons that will battle it out for starting minutes in the AHL. Not ready, but the players are there.

The top forwards on the Heat are Phillips, Ruzicka, Gawdin, and Pettersen. Pelletier and Zary start this year too. Not a bunch of AHL vets in their late 20s.

The defense took a big hit losing Gio. After Tanev, Hanifin, and Andersson things get pretty grim. They were good at cutting down chances last year, so hopefully Sutter can make do, but the lack of offence from the back end is going to be an issue.

[dissentowner]

I don't see an Eichel deal happening anytime soon unless Buffalo comes down a bit on the pricetag. I could even see it stretch toward training camp or longer.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Also the Flames may want to have his deal done and quiet while negotiating free agent signings early tomorrow. A lot of good reasons to delay release of any new deal for johnny or Tkachuk.

I would think they'd want any Gaudreau or Tkachuk extension made public. It would make it a more attractive destination for free agents long term.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't see an Eichel deal happening anytime soon unless Buffalo comes down a bit on the pricetag. I could even see it stretch toward training camp or longer.

There's absolutely no way they will get the deal they want, they have to come down and they know it but they aren't going to comment or say anything of that sort in order to keep the price as high as possible. With Jack all but adamant he wants out, there's no way he plays for Buffalo next year, I think the bigger issue now and likely what's holding everything up is whether or not he'll be able to recover and play in time for the start of next year which is highly unlikely at this point.

I think there are likely a few teams with offers in, Buffalo is just playing the long game trying to see which team will throw additional's in to tip it more in their favor.

Roster player (good one) + A prospect + 1st round pick or another A prospect is likely what he goes for.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I would think they'd want any Gaudreau or Tkachuk extension made public. It would make it a more attractive destination for free agents long term.

I suppose that is probably true.

[Savvy27]

The whole situation is tricky. After Seth Jones was able to bring in a haul close to what the Sabres want, you'd think that would embolden them to hold out for a huge deal. Also, after seeing Sakic be rewarded for his patience when trading Duchene, there is another reason for Buffalo to wait it out.

On the other hand, Eichel has an injury so teams would be taking a big risk giving up so much and if it's true he will be missing a bunch of the season then the appetite will probably diminish until he is primed to return. Which teams are going to have room to add $10M mid season?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by driveway

Edit: I was tryin' to quote Lanny here, my holier-than-thou tone doesn't quite land if it's not clearly directed at CP's eminence-grid

There are a few teams out there: Vegas, NY Islanders, Tampa, Washington, Boston with genuinely enviable depth, but to say that "any and every" NHL team has better, more enviable depth than the Flames - two days before free agency - is just silly.

How many teams have nothing in the minors to provide support to the NHL team? The Flames are in that position. The best they have are career AHL players or prospects on the verge of becoming career AHL players. That is how you define depth. Not just on the NHL roster, but what is available in the minors. The Flames depth is some of the weakest in the league because of the dearth of NHL ready prospects. That is not hyperbole. This is the reality we face and free agency is not going to fix that. Worse, if we chase Eichel, as so many frustrated fans want to do, we carve out even more potential depth, hurting the depth position that much more. That’s the current reality. Try arguing that the Flames are in a good space. That’s a losing argument.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would also argue that Eichel's value will drop the longer this takes. As it stands right now, he is going to miss a big chunk of the upcoming season. Every day that passes pushes that timeline out. If Buffalo wants to wait until the start of the season, then that pushes Eichel out of the entire season, and possibly the playoffs, unless they agree on the surgical procedure and get it done asap.

[dammage79]

The Johnny deadline seems extremely important to figure out. Skipping right by it seems pretty unforgivable from a common sense standpoint.

Yet it's still crickets.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The Johnny deadline seems extremely important to figure out. Skipping right by it seems pretty unforgivable from a common sense standpoint.

Yet it's still crickets.

I don't think our perception of the deadline has any bearing on the reality of the deadline behind closed doors.

Yes, it's a business and yes, either side could suddenly change their mind, but these are also two sides with a relationship and probably a decent understanding of each other (and the market). For all we know, an extension is a foregone conclusion on both sides and it's just a matter of time and finding the right number between two reasonable positions, which makes the deadline completely meaningless.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I disagree. Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk is a first line. Eichel would be an upgrade on Lindholm, but let's give that man some respect.

Lindholm - 47 points - 18th ranked C
Gaudreau - 49 points - 12th ranked LW
Tkachuk - 43 points - 19th ranked among LW and would have been 12th among RW

Literally none of those players are league wide second liners and this was after an awful season where the lines were a mess. I'll accept that they aren't elite first line players which is why I would be in favor of an Eichel acquisition, but they are firmly first line talent.

I'd also say that Mangiapane, Monahan, and Backlund are league wide top 6 players too. After that you have some slots open but they are bottom six and probably 4th line.

In a scenario where the Flames get Eichel for futures you have a top 9 of: Eichel, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Monahan, Backlund, Dube, and Pitlick/Lucic. That's a very strong group of forwards.

@lanny - You have to do mental gymnastics to catastrophize things. If you don't like Dube at C put him on RW where he usually plays and either move Pitlick to 4C or leave that spot open for a free agent or rookie. No issue at all. No back up? No problem, there are about 20 NHL quality free agent goalies floating around. Many teams haven't signed a back up yet.

As for the farm system, the Flames have two draft picks in Wolf and Parsons that will battle it out for starting minutes in the AHL. Not ready, but the players are there.

The top forwards on the Heat are Phillips, Ruzicka, Gawdin, and Pettersen. Pelletier and Zary start this year too. Not a bunch of AHL vets in their late 20s.

The defense took a big hit losing Gio. After Tanev, Hanifin, and Andersson things get pretty grim. They were good at cutting down chances last year, so hopefully Sutter can make do, but the lack of offence from the back end is going to be an issue.

But haven't you heard, none of our top players are worth anything.....

[Canada 02]

could it be that Johnny's agent is aware of that pressure point, and is waiting it out

[868904]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The Johnny deadline seems extremely important to figure out. Skipping right by it seems pretty unforgivable from a common sense standpoint.

Yet it's still crickets.

Didn’t Friedman say that the Flames aren’t concerned with the Johnny’s NTC kicking in?

Which if true, seems incredibly stupid and very Flames like.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by 868904

Didn’t Friedman say that the Flames aren’t concerned with the Johnny’s NTC kicking in?

Which if true, seems incredibly stupid and very Flames like.

Unless of course they have talked to Gaudreau’s camp and are confident he will resign under terms they have already discussed.

I know it’s fashionable to think the flames are utter morons, but it’s likely that the opposite is true and they know more about the negotiations than we do. I know that is hard to accept for many here,. It doesn’t provide us with the opportunity to fly off the handle, which, evidently, some people need in their lives.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Unless of course they have talked to Gaudreau’s camp and are confident he will resign under terms they have already discussed.

I know it’s fashionable to think the flames are utter morons, but it’s likely that the opposite is true and they know more tgg he an we do about any ongoing contract negotiations. I know that is hard to accept for many here.

? This isn't how negotiations work. Johnny + agent could just look at the flames and tell them they no longer agree once the deadline crosses tomorrow. Then what would the flames do? They'd be ####ed.

If it's not on paper and signed it doesn't exist. Johnny + NMC+ no extension in his final year of contract leading to UFA is brutal asset management by the flames.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TOfan

.

I know it’s fashionable to think the flames are utter morons, .

Why would it be fashionable to think so little of your own team's management? Perhaps it's just genuine disdain over being in the same position every year for the last decade and a half: too good to get great players in the draft, but not close to good enough to win a cup.

IMO this management group has done very little to dispel the bolded notion.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

? This isn't how negotiations work. Johnny + agent could just look at the flames and tell them they no longer agree once the deadline crosses tomorrow. Then what would the flames do? They'd be ####ed.

If it's not on paper and signed it doesn't exist. Johnny + NMC+ no extension in his final year of contract leading to UFA is brutal asset management by the flames.

Yes, because agents screw over their players employers all the time. That isn't happening, that agent would be cutting his own throat for doing business.