Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[djsFlames]

I think Gaudreau with Eichel would be absolutely dynamic and borderline unstoppable on some nights.

Basically, Eichel is exactly what Gaudreau needs and vice versa.

No offense to Eichel's mates in Buffalo.

And Hall since about 2 years ago is massively overrated, as he showed there.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

The impact that Eichel could have on the Flames franchise could be as much as a Thornton/Pronger.

Eichel is a better player at his age than Stone/Seguin were. Hands down.

Have the people here not watched him play? He's a beast.

He is not a better player than Seguin and Stone were when traded. You cannot talk about his results from years ago as if he just played a full season and lit up the league. Damaged goods star player < healthy star player

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by AC

That's what it comes down to for me.

If we get Eichel, it's boom or bust.

If we don't, we're likely continuing to tread water for a couple more seasons before we finally start a rebuild when faced with players leaving via free agency while not being quite bad enough to be in the running for either lottery these next 2 years.

After bringing Sutter in, we're not going to do a tear down these next 2 seasons anyways. May as well go big then IMO.

Boom boom!



Death to the mushy middle, and go all in on a talent actually worth going all in on it for.

Treliving’s once upon a time dealt a 1st and two 2nds for a 2nd/3rd pairing defenceman.

Trading two 1sts and two 2nds for a top line centre? Easy decision. Do it. It gives Buffalo the “four future pieces” that they’re after. I actually believe that Treliving will bring this home at this stage.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

If you do it for Monahan, 1st and Zary/Pelletier you pull the trigger. Otherwise have to think long and hard about it

So Monahan + a 1st that might potentially turn into Eichel 7 years from now, but will most likely turn into nothing + one of our future Monahans (but most likely not as good as the original Monahan) for a star player that can take this team over the top.

Yeah... too much to pay. Let's just keep all current and future Monahans so we can just bounce between 7th and 12th in the conference for the rest of time.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

He is not a better player than Seguin and Stone were when traded. You cannot talk about his results from years ago as if he just played a full season and lit up the league. Damaged goods star player < healthy star player

Ok I guess we cannot agree that Jack Eichel at 23-24 is better than Tyler Seguin/Mark Stone at 23-24.

Alright then this conversation is a non-starter.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

It is like everyone forget the cost of Eichel.

Is Eichel 4m and four blue chip assets better than Monahan?

I’m guessing the cost is Monahan, 2x1st and/or Pelletier/Zary.

Stay away Brad, stay away.

that would be a steal...have you seen Monahan play lately?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I have a slightly different outlook on the future of the Flames if they don't enter a rebuild and don't get Eichel.


I am all for a rebuild.
I am all for putting all the trade-chips into the middle and getting an Eichel (and a good defence!!) and so on.


However, I also do think that the Flames draft fairly well. I don't think you absolutely have to have a top 10 centre to win. Does it help? Absolutely it does. St. Louis won a cup, but Buffalo didn't. Edmonton won't.



You just need to draft well and build a good team. Make the right trades and signings. It is very possible. It isn't even the way I necessarily prefer, but I do think it is possible.


With that being said, by all means go out and grab Eichel (I hope we do) and I hope we get a legitimate #1 defencemen, some depth that has some skill, some speed and some physicality, and throw in one of those RW'ers please! If not, I am happy tearing this team down and starting over.


I just do believe that a team like Calgary isn't necessarily relegated into purgatory by not following either A or B.



Say what you will about Sutter as a GM, but he was very effective at trading for 3/4 of his tenure, and he built a very solid team.



Say what you will about Treliving, but this team continues to do well in the drafting/development department.


Right at this very moment, I am hoping for A) push all the chips in, but would be just as happy with B) tear this house down and start fresh now!, but I know that C) isn't a guarantee of purgatory and that it is a reasonable plan to win now.


As an aside, what I do find funny is that Treliving's biggest weakness was Sutter's biggest weakness - and inability to find and hire a proper coach. How did Feaster get a guy that 'exceeded' (if even for a short time)? Different people, different strengths. Just like different teams and different approaches.



I just want to see improvement. I think under Sutter, there will be an improvement already (though you have to replace Giordano). Anything on top is gravy, and there will be at least some gravy this off-season I am sure (and I hope it is Eichel).

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So Monahan + a 1st that might potentially turn into Eichel 7 years from now, but will most likely turn into nothing + one of our future Monahans (but most likely not as good as the original Monahan) for a star player that can take this team over the top.

Yeah... too much to pay. Let's just keep all current and future Monahans so we can just bounce between 7th and 12th in the conference for the rest of time.

He's broken..... you can't gut the team for the injury risk he has.

[djsFlames]

Put it this way: Your team won't compete without a center of Eichel's caliber able to help your top line win matchups against the competition.

Essentially you need what MacKinnon did to us in 2019 from your top center. Monahan doesn't do that, and Lindholm doesn't have the possession game to do that.

So yes, it's worth it.

Basically, choose to stay in mediocrity and first round exits or take the leap and try.

He's not all those pieces and 4M better than Monahan, but you need a Jack Eichel to be a challenger. So you have to bite the bullet to get that piece in your organization if you're not going to be bad enough the next two years to draft that guy.

[InternationalVillager]

I think assigning injury risk is pretty pointless since none of us have ANY real insight of his injury or are medical professionals that are currently treating him or have assessed his medical reports.

We should come to the common understanding that IF the Flames do trade for him, then Eichel has very likely been given the greenlight from the Flames medical team who would have a much better understanding an anyone on an internet forum.

Because when posters bring medical/injury prognosis in their posts, it becomes difficult to discuss the topic with any real common understanding.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

He's broken..... you can't gut the team for the injury risk he has.

Who is really talking about gutting the team here though?

This core isn't going to win us a cup. We all seem to agree on that. So why can't we all agree that it's worth the risk of switching out parts to see if we can come to something better? What advantage is there to holding firm at this point?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

He is not a better player than Seguin and Stone were when traded. You cannot talk about his results from years ago as if he just played a full season and lit up the league. Damaged goods star player < healthy star player

You also can't call a player damaged goods without having any actual clue what the damage or prognosis is.

Seguin the last two seasons before he was traded: 0.77 P/GP
Stone the last two seasons before he was traded: 1.06 P/GP
Eichel the last two seasons before he was traded: 1.08 p/GP

Even if you just take their last season, which by all accounts Eichel was bad in, he still ranked more highly than Seguin.

He's ABSOLUTELY a better player than either of the two. Neither of them have ever come close to Eichel's best season (which we're just a year removed from), let alone before they were traded.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

The impact that Eichel could have on the Flames franchise could be as much as a Thornton/Pronger.

Or it could be a nuclear bomb. What if he gets the surgery and doesn't recover. Calgary is ####ed. What if he gets the surgery and only has limited mobility without pain, the injury becoming chronic? Calgary is ####ed. What if he get's the surgery and only comes back at 80%? Calgary is ####ed. What if Eichel just doesn't perform up to a $10M salary? Calgary is ####ed. What if Eichel decides he doesn't want to play in Calgary/Canada and pulls the same #### he's pulling with Buffalo? Calgary is ####ed. There is a lot of risk here, and if the stars don't align, Calgary is ####ed.

Eichel is a better player at his age than Stone/Seguin were. Hands down.

I dunno. Do you know where Stone was at the same age? On a team going to the Stanley Cup Final. Seguin? Coming off his 4th consecutive 70+ point season and on his way to six straight. Eichel has broken that barrier twice. Hands down? Nope. Debatable, yes, but hands down? No.

Have the people here not watched him play? He's a beast.

Yeah, we have. And there is a lot more to the game of hockey that flash and dash. Don't get too excited about guys that can put the puck in the net when they scored on more. You don't win many games when you consistently get outscored. If all you care about is a player getting points in a Flames uniform, then Eichel is your man. You care about winning, you might be best served to keep looking elsewhere.

[InternationalVillager]

Gaudreau-Eichel-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube
Pelletier-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-XXXXXX-Pitlick

Hanifin-Tanev
Valimaki-Andersson
Mackey-XXXXXX

Markstrom
XXXXXXX

My trade offer to Buffalo:

Monahan
2022 1st/2nd
2023 1st/2nd

for

Eichel @ 10% retained.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Who is really talking about gutting the team here though?

This core isn't going to win us a cup. We all seem to agree on that. So why can't we all agree that it's worth the risk of switching out parts to see if we can come to something better? What advantage is there to holding firm at this point?

When you are talking about sending Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Valimaki and 1st that is gutting us.... after that do you think trading Monahan supports us getting a player back of Mangiapane's caliber to play wing?

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Gaudreau-Eichel-Mangiapane
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Dube
Pelletier-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-XXXXXX-Pitlick

Hanifin-Tanev
Valimaki-Andersson
Mackey-XXXXXX

Markstrom
XXXXXXX

My trade offer to Buffalo:

Monahan
2022 1st/2nd
2023 1st/2nd

for

Eichel @ 10% retained.

Buffalo isn't going to retain money, and they want at minimum a blue chip prospect with the package.

[djsFlames]

Eichel scared the #### out of me when the Sabres played us when he was healthy.

I remember that last regular season game at the dome with fans when he single handedly kept Buffalo in the game then ended it in OT on one of those plays that leave you saying "well, that was so high end, what can you do?"

Seguin only scared me for that somewhat brief period when he and Benn were at their best together 3-4 years ago.

[ComixZone]

Friedman on the Fan:

Did not hear Johnny’s name over the weekend. Doesn’t think he was out there from a trade perspective.

Flames trying to define new identity

Flames looking for Defence

Flames still listed as being in on Eichel. Buffalo is after four “futures” (prospects/picks)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by AC

That's what it comes down to for me.

If we get Eichel, it's boom or bust.

If we don't, we're likely continuing to tread water for a couple more seasons before we finally start a rebuild when faced with players leaving via free agency while not being quite bad enough to be in the running for either lottery these next 2 years.

After bringing Sutter in, we're not going to do a tear down these next 2 seasons anyways. May as well go big then IMO.

The problem with this argument is that the 2022 1st is going to be our best draft pick since Tkachuk. There is a small chance that it will be a generational talent.

Originally Posted by _Q_

So Monahan + a 1st that might potentially turn into Eichel 7 years from now, but will most likely turn into nothing + one of our future Monahans (but most likely not as good as the original Monahan) for a star player that can take this team over the top.

Yeah... too much to pay. Let's just keep all current and future Monahans so we can just bounce between 7th and 12th in the conference for the rest of time.

That is a bad take. The 2022 draft is expected to be possibly the best ever. And according to a lot of people here (you included I think) the Flames are crap. So dismissing that pick as 'most likely turn into nothing' is way, way off the mark. Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk are the top picks the Flames have ever had. If we miss the playoffs and draft in the top 10, we will be looking at someone in the Monahan, Tkachuk range. If we pick top 3 (very possible), we will be looking at the best draft pick the Flames have ever had.

But you and others are good with tossing it in, along with several other significant assets.

Too many people are all in with the 'Eichel is the only way out of mediocrity' miss-impression.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yeah, we have. And there is a lot more to the game of hockey that flash and dash. Don't get too excited about guys that can put the puck in the net when they scored on more. You don't win many games when you consistently get outscored. If all you care about is a player getting points in a Flames uniform, then Eichel is your man. You care about winning, you might be best served to keep looking elsewhere.

For one, it's weird to assume anyone else has actually watched Eichel besides you. Who is "we"? Does your group have a membership? Do you watch Buffalo games for fun? Seems weird.

Two, from the *extremely limited* (because I am normal) Sabres games I have seen, and the less-limited number of articles I've read about Eichel, this doesn't match and seems like you're throwing out cliches to fill air. Eichel isn't a defensive forward, but his game isn't all "flash and dash"... unless you're just describing an elite offensive player who makes the guys around him better? He corsi numbers are tops on the team, his xGA/60 have improved year over year and ranked him as one of the better players for it last year.

I don't think your Eichel take is on point. Is this another "watched every Florida Panthers game with Sam Bennett" situation where you just say you watch all the games? Honest question.