2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Demetric

Rittich was not drafted

He was developed by the Flames though. Though TBF the argument about the development system somehow merged into drafting.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There almost always seems to be a coach or goaltending issue here in Calgary. Funny with both addressed (again) there shouldn't be anywhere to hide unless of course the narrative shifts to Sutter being the cause of all the problems now.

And I do like the player, but what did Markstrom do for the team last year exactly? He's certainly a nice piece, but we all knew this wasn't the move that was the critical one to make for the franchise to take a step in the right direction. He's a difference maker on a team that is on the verge of something big, but not going to single handedly mask all the holes on this roster.

The forwards are stagnant and complacent, and have been since February of 2019 when something set them back and they have never truly recovered. The GM seems to be just as lost as his players as the window closes and player values plummet with every passing season. The best GMs are able to make moves and stay ahead of the curve. For me, Treliving is not able to read his team effectively and is far more in the camp of seeing what sticks to a wall than building something with a true identity, which most of the successful franchises have in spades.

I doubt the GM is lost. I’m sure he has a firm grasp on the value of his players and whether or not the trades that I’m sure have been discussed over the past two years were worth executing or not. We do know he has endeavoured to add to the group, Kadri, Stone, Hall, but he wasn’t prepared to write a blank cheque. I don’t understand why this is a point of criticism. If anything it shows he has some restraint, which a smart GM should exercise more often than not.

On another note, not too sure how you could suggest Treliving doesn’t know how to read his own team. All due respect, Mr. Fart, but I’m gathering you’re making these assessments from your coach, in front of your computer, or in the stands. Treliving is in the room. That said, you would be far from the only person on this forum who likes to think they know more than the GM.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Demetric

Rittich was not drafted

He was certainly developed

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Getting a goalie was a critical move. Not the only one of course, but a pretty necessary one. It can't be argued that he went and got the best one who was available.

That isn't the argument in the least though. It can certainly be argued he's not a very good GM and has led this franchise down a path which may only end with another lengthy rebuild after nearly a decade of primarily underwhelming results.

If I recall, his directive upon hiring was to build a perennial competitor and not a single fan can say he's even come close to that 7 years into his tenure. In fact, when you read things from his initial presser like "heavy teams win" and "I have an empty canvas" you have to wonder how this has even come to this point.

He had the luxury of inheriting a team at a point where he did have a blank page, so to speak, and he certainly hasn't built a heavy team or perennial competitor. Not even close. We fans all better hope he's got some serious magic up his sleeve in the next 4-6 weeks or this next season has the feeling of another lame duck year in the making.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by TOfan

On another note, not too sure how you could suggest Treliving doesn’t know how to read his own team. All due respect, Mr. Fart, but I’m gathering you’re making these assessments from your coach, in front of your computer, or in the stands. Treliving is in the room. That said, you would be far from the only person on this forum who likes to think they know more than the GM.

Is that not 99.9% of the fan forum in a nutshell or must you be immersed in the room in order to dare suggest the GM is past his best before date? I really don't care if you agree with me or not, but I don't see many reasons to be confident in 2021/2022 and beyond under the current management based on it's body of work.

If you think Tre is still the right guy for the job, what exactly gives you that feeling? Are we supposed to just sit around waiting for another 2-3 years hoping he finally strikes gold? At this point 2019 is looking more like an outlier than any sort of grand plan the GM had.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Seems like lots of dramatics. Appears to me like:
- we graduated a bunch of young players which is a positive
- have a handful of promising players in the system though maybe not as many as you'd like (though as many as you'd expect for a team that has both steadily graduated guys and has been in the mode of pushing for the playoffs)
- have more higher round picks last year, this year, and next year, which is good for a team getting into re-tool mode.

I don't really see the issue. The situation may not be "ideal" but I have trouble imagining it's anything worse than average. Not something to celebrate, but not something to be upset about either.

The comment that started this was that Flames could afford to trade youth or picks to win now. While prospect and pick the situation isn’t dire it would be prudent to build on the apparent success at drafting and stockpile more young players rather than trading picks or youth.

The up and coming teams that trade prospects and picks appropriately are generally those that have accumulated a wealth of top prospects. I think of the pre-cup kings trading Brayden Schenn for example. The Flames aren’t in that position.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Is that not 99.9% of the fan forum in a nutshell or must you be immersed in the room in order to dare suggest the GM is past his best before date? I really don't care if you agree with me or not, but I don't see many reasons to be confident in 2021/2022 and beyond under the current management based on it's body of work.

If you think Tre is still the right guy for the job, what exactly gives you that feeling? Are we supposed to just sit around waiting for another 2-3 years hoping he finally strikes gold? At this point 2019 is looking more like an outlier than any sort of grand plan the GM had.

Fair points, but relieving Treliving for ‘?’ makes this organization better? I’m not convinced. Seems to me the pitfalls this organization has repeatedly found itself in over the past 15 years or so are consistent regardless of who the GM is.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by transplant99

They have 9 picks over the first 3 rounds the next 2 years.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Fun fact: 9 picks in the first 3 rounds over the next two seasons is the 2nd highest in the league.

Detroit: 11
Calgary: 9
Ottawa: 9

It's nice to be above average for once, but the reality is we only have an extra 2nd and 3rd.

It's great that we're picking 83 instead of 108, but we still only have 4 picks higher than 140 this year.

FLA's 2nd is a nice wildcard...could be high, could be low.


MTL has 12 picks in the first four rds next two years. CGY has 10...same number of 1sts and 2nds between us.

CAR holds all of their own picks for the next 3 years except this year's 5th. They have three extra 7ths and a 6th, too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Is that not 99.9% of the fan forum in a nutshell or must you be immersed in the room in order to dare suggest the GM is past his best before date? I really don't care if you agree with me or not, but I don't see many reasons to be confident in 2021/2022 and beyond under the current management based on it's body of work.

If you think Tre is still the right guy for the job, what exactly gives you that feeling? Are we supposed to just sit around waiting for another 2-3 years hoping he finally strikes gold? At this point 2019 is looking more like an outlier than any sort of grand plan the GM had.

For me it's the guy himself. I think he learns from mistakes and firing him now would see you lose the best version of Treliving as a GM we could have.

He's improved the drafting ... don't see many arguing that any more.

The coaching issues seem behind us, and hopefully the UFA signings don't rear their head again.

But I think it all comes down to what I keep saying; did you think that Monahan/Gaudreau were not 2/3 of a first line? If you didn't then you were ahead of the curve and would have charted a better course. If you did, then you likely would have moved futures to add to the core as it stood.

[ricardodw]

Biggest trades that built Tampa:

Just prior to the Vegas expansion draft TB traded Drouin who was coming off his ELC contract and would have to be protected in the Vegas expansion draft for Sergachev #9 overall pick in 2016 AND a Montreal's 2nd round pick.

Sergachev had 4 games with Montreal at the time and moved directly to the NHL the first year with TB. 79 games 15:22 /gm and 40 pts

Equivalent trade 2021 ... Mangiapane to Ottawa for Sanderson or Montreal for Guhle or NYR for Schneider 3 out of the 4 top drafted D-men picked in 2020.

Not as simple as identifying and going after Sergachev because off covid season, but the kind of a trade that could be a franchise changer.

The other trade was Bishop to LA for Cernak. In Feb 2017 Cernak was finishing his D+1 in Erie and had to spend a full 71 game season in the AHL before moving into TB's top-4

The Tampa Bay Lightning traded goaltender Ben Bishop and a fifth-round pick in the 2017 NHL Draft to the Los Angeles Kings on Sunday for goaltender Peter Budaj, defenseman Erik Cernak, a seventh-round pick in 2017 and a conditional pick in this year's draft.

I have no idea who the next Cernak is, but if there is one out there it would make sense to follow TB's lead and "over-pay" for him.

If the Flames trade Gaudreau and/or Monahan they should be looking ahead and going for a Sergachev/Cernak pair.

Amazing that TB was able to pull this off with the whole league watching and having the same opportunity.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

That isn't the argument in the least though. It can certainly be argued he's not a very good GM and has led this franchise down a path which may only end with another lengthy rebuild after nearly a decade of primarily underwhelming results.

If I recall, his directive upon hiring was to build a perennial competitor and not a single fan can say he's even come close to that 7 years into his tenure. In fact, when you read things from his initial presser like "heavy teams win" and "I have an empty canvas" you have to wonder how this has even come to this point.

He had the luxury of inheriting a team at a point where he did have a blank page, so to speak, and he certainly hasn't built a heavy team or perennial competitor. Not even close. We fans all better hope he's got some serious magic up his sleeve in the next 4-6 weeks or this next season has the feeling of another lame duck year in the making.

I don't know any team that's a perennial contender. Maybe Pittsburgh and it's because they have two of the greatest players in the last 15 years on the team. And TBF I can't recall anyone saying that was Treliving's mandate. On this board there's a lot of talk about what the owners are making management do, but it's all conjecture.

Now, I voted he should be fired, basically because he hasn't succeeded. But I also want a fair debate about it, and the post I responded to said getting Markstrom wasn't the key to being successful. Well, first now one claimed it was and second, it is sure one of a number of necessary moves.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Biggest trades that built Tampa:

Just prior to the Vegas expansion draft TB traded Drouin who was coming off his ELC contract and would have to be protected in the Vegas expansion draft for Sergachev #9 overall pick in 2016 AND a Montreal's 2nd round pick.

Sergachev had 4 games with Montreal at the time and moved directly to the NHL the first year with TB. 79 games 15:22 /gm and 40 pts

Equivalent trade 2021 ... Mangiapane to Ottawa for Sanderson or Montreal for Guhle or NYR for Schneider 3 out of the 4 top drafted D-men picked in 2020.

Not as simple as identifying and going after Sergachev because off covid season, but the kind of a trade that could be a franchise changer.

The other trade was Bishop to LA for Cernak. In Feb 2017 Cernak was finishing his D+1 in Erie and had to spend a full 71 game season in the AHL before moving into TB's top-4




I have no idea who the next Cernak is, but if there is one out there it would make sense to follow TB's lead and "over-pay" for him.

If the Flames trade Gaudreau and/or Monahan they should be looking ahead and going for a Sergachev/Cernak pair.

Amazing that TB was able to pull this off with the whole league watching and having the same opportunity.

Well, I'd say the 3 way trade that sent Downie to Colorado for Detroit's 19th OA pick in the 2012 draft was pretty big.

Or maybe the trade up from 80 OA to get the 79th OA pick in 2014. Basically cost them a 5th round pick to get Point.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Fair points, but relieving Treliving for ‘?’ makes this organization better? I’m not convinced. Seems to me the pitfalls this organization has repeatedly found itself in over the past 15 years or so are consistent regardless of who the GM is.

Maybe the biggest pitfalls have been making some poor decisions in hiring the GM.

I'd like to know who the ? is but at this point, I'd take the chance on someone new as I see little downside. Even if my confidence on who they'd hire isn't super high.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Maybe the biggest pitfalls have been making some poor decisions in hiring the GM.

I'd like to know who the ? is but at this point, I'd take the chance on someone new as I see little downside. Even if my confidence on who they'd hire isn't super high.

If Treliving was fired there's a pretty good chance the GM would be from Viking.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For me it's the guy himself. I think he learns from mistakes and firing him now would see you lose the best version of Treliving as a GM we could have.

He's improved the drafting ... don't see many arguing that any more.

The coaching issues seem behind us, and hopefully the UFA signings don't rear their head again.

But I think it all comes down to what I keep saying; did you think that Monahan/Gaudreau were not 2/3 of a first line? If you didn't then you were ahead of the curve and would have charted a better course. If you did, then you likely would have moved futures to add to the core as it stood.

Every team has "a" first line, what you need is a first line that more often than not is better than the opposition's. IMO a great number of people have never seen Monahan as a top C in the league. And even if you did, even fewer would have been confident enough to go all in on that belief by trading away futures.

If you want to boil Treliving's entire tenure on his assessment of Monahan and Gaudreau, IMO that doesn't paint in him in an overly flattering light.
But even if you concede that he was right to believe those two could bring you a championship, too many of the moves to build around them were not executed well.

IMO the best argument for Treliving is that fate and events conspired against him to complete the deals he wanted to shape the team. That and the fact that the same people who hired Jay Feaster will be hiring the next GM.

Regardless he is our GM and he has hitched his wagon to Darryl Sutter. Having him as head coach is one of the best things the organization has going for it, although I remain very skeptical that he and Treliving are aligned.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Treliving was fired there's a pretty good chance the GM would be from Viking.

Brent Sutter?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If Treliving was fired there's a pretty good chance the GM would be from Viking.

Treliving won't fired this off season. I suppose if the team fails miserably he could be canned mid season. If so, I suppose they could look to Darryl but if it's next off season I'd consider that scenario unlikely.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Treliving won't fired this off season. I suppose if the team fails miserably he could be canned mid season. If so, I suppose they could look to Darryl but if it's next off season I'd consider that scenario unlikely.

Even more likely would be Don Maloney

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Even more likely would be Don Maloney

Dear sweet baby Jesus no!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Even more likely would be Don Maloney

I think Treliving and Maloney are tied together and as soon as Treliving is gone Maloney is out as well.