[PGT] Habs 2 Flames 1 - Goodbye Playoff Hopes

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Does that make every Flame a PP specialist because he's still 2nd on the team in even strength points?

Half the game 5 on 5 is played without the puck. A player who is a liability without the puck, and who generates a disproportionate amount of points on the powerplay, is a pp specialist. They need to be protected 5 on 5, where their offense/defense is pretty much a saw-off.

[dino7c]

Gaudreau has been in on almost every goal lately with the season on the line. Yes he needs better line mates. If not here he will go elsewhere and put up 100.

Play to players strengths....not every star player is a power forward that carries a team on his back.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau has been in on almost every goal lately with the season on the line. Yes he needs better line mates. If not here he will go elsewhere and put up 100.

It's crazy how other lines and D pairings are getting scored on regularly without generating any offense and people want to only talk about Gaudreau.

What players on this team are regularly outplaying the opposition? The answer is not enough.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by timbit

He is tied for 2nd with Mangiapane and Backlund and one point ahead of Monahan.
Two points ahead of Tkachuk and 3 points ahead of Lucic.

Exactly, so are all of these players PP specialists? What's your criteria for that?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's crazy how other lines and D pairings are getting scored on regularly without generating any offense and people want to only talk about Gaudreau.

What players on this team are regularly outplaying the opposition? The answer is not enough.

Gaudreau is a pass-first guy who leads the team in goals scored.

I think it's kind of obvious he's not the main problem with our offense.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's crazy how other lines and D pairings are getting scored on regularly without generating any offense and people want to only talk about Gaudreau.

What players on this team are regularly outplaying the opposition? The answer is not enough.

Might have something to do with his contract status...no?

[Winsor_Pilates]

The guy drafted 104th overall and has carried the team offensively for 7 years is somehow the problem

Not the guys drafted #4 & #6 who were supposed to be our top 2 centres for those rendition of the Flames became total busts.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Itse

Gaudreau is a pass-first guy who leads the team in goals scored.

I think it's kind of obvious he's not the main problem with our offense.

Gaudeau seems to be shooting more this year and it paying off.


Monahan on the other hand does not seem to be shooting and is electing to pass. His release is (was?) elite but it seems quite diminished this year. I'm wondering if he is yet again injured.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The guy drafted 104th overall and has carried the team offensively for 7 years is somehow the problem

Not the guys drafted #4 & #6 who were supposed to be our top 2 centres for those rendition of the Flames became total busts.

Does that 104th overall player get paid like a 4th rounder? Johnny’s draft position is irrelevant once he became the highest paid player on the team and that happened after his second full season.

Monahan is now a total bust?

What a brutal drive by post

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by timbit

The REAL proration is 62 points.

When you use math it is 63 points.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The guy drafted 104th overall and has carried the team offensively for 7 years is somehow the problem

Not the guys drafted #4 & #6 who were supposed to be our top 2 centres for those rendition of the Flames became total busts.

Certainly is a big part of it. Yes.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Does that 104th overall player get paid like a 4th rounder? Johnny’s draft position is irrelevant once he became the highest paid player on the team and that happened after his second full season.

Monahan is now a total bust?

What a brutal drive by post

Gaudreau is not the highest paid player on the team, that honor goes to the guy who has fewer even strength points than Johnny.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The reasons why Johnny is being talked about so much is:
- He is primarily an offensive contributor, and doesn't add much if not producing in that way
- Within that he's not producing even strength
- He is a pending UFA entering the last year of his contract
- He has an NTC coming up that will restrict the available market.

No one is saying he is THE problem. But there is a pinch point coming up VERY quickly to maximize the value of the asset. And for those that believe the forward group requires serious changes, he and Tkachuk probably have the maximum value.

[Manhattanboy]

Nm

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Certainly is a big part of it. Yes.

I'd agree he's a part of it. Certainly not exempt from criticism but he's no where near the biggest issue.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Does that 104th overall player get paid like a 4th rounder? Johnny’s draft position is irrelevant once he became the highest paid player on the team and that happened after his second full season.

Fair point, but he has played up to his contract more than most.

Monahan is now a total bust?

What a brutal drive by post

Not far from and trending that way, hopefully he proves me wrong.

More importantly the point I was making is that our top 2 centres not turning out as planned is the single biggest reason this version of the team is where they are.

If Johnny is guilty of anything, it's papering over the cracks this franchise had, convincing management they were further ahead of their rebuild than they were and preventing the team from sucking enough to draft higher.
We would have been Buffalo awful for many years without Gaudreau; maybe that would have been a good thing.

[nik-]

The problem really isn't Gaudreau. The problem is the amount of importance placed on a player of Gaudreau's size and skillset as a result of this team construction. He can play a more complete game for sure, but he shouldn't be expected to do the lifting he's expected to do.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

The problem really isn't Gaudreau. The problem is the amount of importance placed on a player of Gaudreau's size and skillset as a result of this team construction. He can play a more complete game for sure, but he shouldn't be expected to do the lifting he's expected to do.

The same applies to a number of players. Should a 37 year old D man be the primary offence from the back end? Should a slow centre who is known for scoring be a 1C, facing top opposition and defence, and who is now doing what he's being asked and focusing more on D and puck carrying? Should a grinding LW who has decent hands and has been a good puck protector be the highest paid forward on the team, with the commensurate expectations? Should the offence revolve around a tiny LW who isn't overly fast and makes his living in open space?

There's only a few guys cut out for their roles, and none of those roles are top line.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

The problem really isn't Gaudreau. The problem is the amount of importance placed on a player of Gaudreau's size and skillset as a result of this team construction. He can play a more complete game for sure, but he shouldn't be expected to do the lifting he's expected to do.

He shouldn't be expected to produce offense 5 on 5?
That's not expecting him to even play a more complete game. That's expecting him to do the very thing he is supposed to be good at: offense.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The same applies to a number of players. Should a 37 year old D man be the primary offence from the back end? Should a slow centre who is known for scoring be a 1C, facing top opposition and defence, and who is now doing what he's being asked and focusing more on D and puck carrying? Should a grinding LW who has decent hands and has been a good puck protector be the highest paid forward on the team, with the commensurate expectations? Should the offence revolve around a tiny LW who isn't overly fast and makes his living in open space?

There's only a few guys cut out for their roles, and none of those roles are top line.

Stop depressing me with the truth
How do you even start to fix all that...