2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I've pitched Gaudreau+Bennett for Konecny+Patrick
Monahan + Hanifin as a basis for Dahlin+ Sam Reinhart

First one I think is doable but I think Buffalo gets hosed in the second one. Monahan is better than Reinhart but Dahlin's value is way higher than Hanifin's even on an off year.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Bonded

First one I think is doable but I think Buffalo gets hosed in the second one. Monahan is better than Reinhart but Dahlin's value is way higher than Hanifin's even on an off year.

Yeah, I was thinking a small add would be needed there, but not sure what to make of it. I think Dahlin is really underperforming, but Buffalo probably isnt as stupid as im making them out to be

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I've pitched Gaudreau+Bennett for Konecny+Patrick and i feel the value is still good. Patrick is woefully underperforming again, and Bennett might still have Playoff player value.

Monahan + Hanifin as a basis for Dahlin+ Sam Reinhart


Mangiapane-Lindholm-Reinhart
Tkachuk-Backlund-Konecny
Lucic-Patrick-Dube
Nodstrom/Leivo-Ryan-Ritchie

Dahlin-Tanev
Giordano-Andersson
Valimaki-Nesterov

Markstrom

Basically younger guys with higher upside potential. Not a notable get better roster, but perhaps a group of guys that would play better together.

Wonder if they would Farabee and Konecny instead. Too much risk in Patrick imo.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Is Johnny’s value that low where the Flames retain and don’t even get a first round pick back?

I would be okay with Patrick as one of the pieces in the deal but not a centerpiece.

Konecny+Patrick for Gaudreau + ? and then send Monahan somewhere for a winger. With Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund on the roster I don’t see Patrick getting in that top 6 without moving one of those centers.

Lindholm-Backlund-Patrick as your top 3 C. Tkachuk, Konecny, Mangiapane, and whoever they get for Monahan as their top 4 wings.

All these pie in the sky trade scenarios where the Flames get over the moon value for Gaudreau only set fans up for disappointment. What I'm postulating with deal is a worst case scenario more likely to occur where you're shipping out an expiring asset and locking in 3 pieces for your roster for the next 3 to 6 years. With all of them having uses for this roster.

Look at slotting opportunities in the Flames line up. Johnny has 2 spots he can play, #1 or #2 LW. Whereas Patrick can slot into between 4 and 6 spots at center or RW. Think of him as a lindholm type versatile player. Then cost control, we have him for 4 years at what will likely end up cheap and giving the team flexibility to find ways to improve the team again in other trades or signings.

The player value is off but the organizational asset value is off the charts. Simply put, a cheaper, younger and extremely more versatile option on your roster is a win.

If you look at the trade on the face, yeah it doesn't look amazing, but like the lindholm trade happened, when you look deeper and started to understand the underlying value of it, then it becomes a home run.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cowtownred

Get Johnny a centre who he can flourish with. Monahan is his boat anchor! How can SM be called a centre, when he doesnt drive the line? Theres the problem in my eyes.

The problem with Gaudreau is Gaudreau. PERIOD. The guy spends more time blowing snow and making button hooks inside the blueline than any other player in the league. He plays scared and is doing this all on his own.

Originally Posted by dammage79

My perception of a PHI/CGY trade with Johnny involved looks a little different.

I think it'd look a bit more like this:

Johnny (6.75m 2 years) 1.5 m retained
Kylington ( 790k 1 year)

For

Patrick (850k 1year RFA)
Ghostibehere(4.5m 3 years)
2021 2nd round pick
Try for a prospect like Forrester

Looks incredibly low but you're buying a 22year old RFA with tip 2 center potential with a coveted RHS.

If the concensus is youre losing Johnny no matter what happens, get the asset management aspect correct.

Patrick is buried in PHI no way about that. I think he'd be a better fit in our top 6.

Nolan Patrick is a bust. Just nothing there, and with his migraine issues is a non-starter for an environment like Calgary. But that would be so Calgary, trade for a player with no future a la Gary Leeman.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

So he’s their Bennett

Yes he is. They hoped he would be a stud, but he ended up being a dud.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

He was at one point viewed as a surefire #1 centre, and those are very difficult to come by. To get one right now, I think we need to take a bit of a gamble on a guy who has some warts. If we can use Gaudreau, who isn't really helping us win anyway, to get Konecny, and a shot at a possible #1 centre, that's a win for me.

Sounds like another Bennett though

[3thirty]

Bennett and a 2nd for Domi, who says no?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by New Era

The problem with Gaudreau is Gaudreau. PERIOD. The guy spends more time blowing snow and making button hooks inside the blueline than any other player in the league. He plays scared and is doing this all on his own.



Nolan Patrick is a bust. Just nothing there, and with his migraine issues is a non-starter for an environment like Calgary. But that would be so Calgary, trade for a player with no future a la Gary Leeman.



Yes he is. They hoped he would be a stud, but he ended up being a dud.

I disagree on Patrick being a bust. Firstly, the migrane issues are sorted, he has missed no time because of them since coming back from treating the issue.

Secondly, 29 games played after missing more than a year is woefully shortsighted on your part to call him a bust.

It's fine to think that the Flames can extract more value for Johnny, or even think Patrick should be a secondary piece in a deal, but I'm not writing this player off, it's far too early. And like I said, he is buried in Philly.

Where as in Calgary there's so much room for him to move up and grow into a top line player or even hedging the bets a 2nd liner. And again the on ice portion is not full value but the cap flex to supplement the team is there. So it's like adding a a big fast RHS AND other forwards for Johnny.

EDIT: And I agree with your take on Gaudreau as well New Era, his problems are his and his alone. He's gone softer than baby turds.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Where as in Calgary there's so much room for him to move up and grow into a top line player or even hedging the bets a 2nd liner. And again the on ice portion is not full value but the cap flex to supplement the team is there. So it's like adding a a big fast RHS AND other forwards for Johnny.

All of that just sounds like Bennett to me. He could but chances are he won't.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Wonder if they would Farabee and Konecny instead. Too much risk in Patrick imo.

I wish- no chance IMO. Farabee is outproducing gaudreau this year and looks exceptional doing it, not a fluke. Imagine if Mangiapane was putting in more of his shots and stayed on his skates all the time lol.

Ship has sailed on Farabee. Might be able to try and swing Morgan Frost but I personally perfer Patrick. Konecny is where we are getting most of the value for Gaudreau, and I don't think we can reasonably expect much more than that.

[8sPOT]

The problem with a Gaudreau for Nolan Patrick deal is Gaudreau is way better than Patrick. Thats a big time downgrade and sets the team even further back.

Sure Patrick may become a great player, but Gaudreau already is that.

Konecny on the other hand is much more comparable, and I think a better basis for a trade.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by 3thirty

Bennett and a 2nd for Domi, who says no?

Us I think. Domi is in a tight downward spiral and doesnt look like he will be worth that contract at all. Bennett isn't worth anything but at least he doesnt push us into cap frustrations over the next 5 years.

[8sPOT]

Above all, I would caution to not trade too many draft picks. The more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks we've got the better. Thats the best chance at gamebreaker type players IMO. The draft.

If Zary, Phillips, or Pelletier could come in soon and play a top 6 role that changes things a lot. But none of them are 'blue chip' prospects.

The never ending cycle of being not bad enough to get generational players, and not good enough to win anything continues. But make the playoffs and you've got a chance at least.

[Wolfman]

We should be acquiring more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders to make up for the ones we've lost in trade over the years.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

We should be acquiring more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders to make up for the ones we've lost in trade over the years.

Unlikely to happen.

Essentially you are saying we should start leveraging current roster players for draft capital. Darryl Sutter didn't come back to coach through a rebuild. I'll go out on a limb and say, acquiring draft picks is not in the teams immediate future. If anything, you can expect to see the opposite.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

All of that just sounds like Bennett to me. He could but chances are he won't.

Patrick is a bit younger, bigger and faster and a RHS. So even if he’s the same at this point, it’s a better situation.

[Sylvanfan]

Trading for Nolan Patrick would be like when the Flames traded for Rob Niedermayer. Except that Gaudreau in spite of his short comings is still considerably better than Val Bure.

Even trading him for Konecny seems like the days when the team was trading Chris Drury for Steve Reinprecht and using the money savings as an excuse to do it. Giving up a way better player, but hey we're getting a younger cheaper guy who might one day be this good. Those trades didn't work...this wouldn't either.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

We should be acquiring more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders to make up for the ones we've lost in trade over the years.

Treliving is about 1 first down (which is all done with now), IIRC, and even in other picks traded back and forth. He picked up picks last draft by moving down to take Zary.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Trading for Nolan Patrick would be like when the Flames traded for Rob Niedermayer. Except that Gaudreau in spite of his short comings is still considerably better than Val Bure.

Even trading him for Konecny seems like the days when the team was trading Chris Drury for Steve Reinprecht and using the money savings as an excuse to do it. Giving up a way better player, but hey we're getting a younger cheaper guy who might one day be this good. Those trades didn't work...this wouldn't either.

Konecny was almost PPG last year and this year has 18 in 23. He’s producing more than Gaudreau over the last 2 years. Plus he’s a RW, so now you c put one of your many LHS forwards on their proper side, presumably Mangiapane or Dube.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I know Eichel and Hall get all of the media on being dealt, but what about Olofsson?

Yes, he has a lot of power play points, but don’t we need someone that can actually score on the odd man advantage? Still an RFA in 2022.