Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[Ferarri]

I really hope Darryl has success here in Calgary. He’s a genuine hockey legend with a strong love for the game. Hope the players respond to his style and put it all on the line. Somewhere right now, Ken King must be smiling.

All the best Darryl from the entire C of red. Let’s finish this together and get that cup we all deserve. GFG!

[Hackey]

I heard him say something like the system is fine but not the execution.

[Jaydee]

Hartley should never have been fired

[blender]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Think I saw a quote from Darryl that said the system was fine, but the style wasn’t...still not exactly sure what he means by that.

Execution.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t know, first half Mike Smith in 18-19 was almost as bas as it gets, but the team was scoring at will. Anyone remember that unbelievable comeback against Philadelphia?

Rittich had a pretty good first half though so it made up for it until Smith started playing better. In 2015-16 nobody was good and just when Ramo was starting to play ok he got hurt.

Having one goalie struggle and the other not is something you can overcome. Having both(or in that year's case three) struggle is another.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Think I saw a quote from Darryl that said the system was fine, but the style wasn’t...still not exactly sure what he means by that.

Darryl Sutter hates the Blasty reverse-retros.

... or, he loves them.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Skyceman]

Gelinas was recently interviewed and he said Darryl told him it would be too hard to change the system mid season. He mentioned they are making some small adjustments which they have been working on in practice.

https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/1-o...1462/c-7755390

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by blender

Execution.

This is what leads me to believe this just a lazy bunch. Lucic has said on multiple occasions that the system and message is still in place from last season which by the way, got them back into the playoff race, past the Jets in the play in round and up 3-0 in game 6 vs Dallas.

But now this season they can’t execute the same system they already know? They have executed for a period or 2 in most games, but then stink it up afterwards or can’t bother to show up for the the first period. They can keep up when they’re working hard, but such an achingly slow team when they’re playing lazy which is what we’ve seen most of this year.

[Calgary4LIfe]

@classic Sniper - you should listen to the interview yourself before assuming. Actually, everyone should just go to CalgaryFlames.com and listen to some of the interviews.


Sutter doesn't want to change the system because there isn't enough time to make big changes.



When he referenced style of play, yes, I guess you can come up with 'execution'.. sort of. Way more to do with compete and speed. Speed. SPEED. Execution isn't a style, but rather an outcome.


Will make adjustments to the system.


Anyway, just listen to the press conference, and make your own assumptions about what he means by certain things yourself from the additional context that he provided. Just one sentence soundbites makes it easier to come up with the wrong assumptions.


As for your thoughts on the Flames not being executing this season - sure, maybe it is lazy. However, maybe it is because they practice without any game pace, so they are not used to executing at game pace? Something to consider. These same core players seemed to execute at an elite level under Hartley and Peters (for the first while before the pace disappeared). They have been executing less and less well the longer they were under Ward.


I thought it was confusion. I didn't think it had anything to do with laziness. You can see this team put in some damn good efforts in periods and they were not executing. It is impossible to deny that they had some good efforts, with unimpressive results, so laziness can't explain it - definitely doesn't explain it all.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, Darryl didn't say the system was fine. But people hear what they want to hear.

The fact is that 30 games isn't a lot of time. It will be interesting to watch though, and to see how the players, and their style of play, adapt as we move forward.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

Hartley should never have been fired

He was a demanding coach, much like Sutter is. His tactics crossed the line in his last season and they had to let him go. Brian Burke said as much in his book.

So he should have been fired when he was.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by timbit

Maybe the biggest challenge Darryl has is....

The huge problem that the Flames have with their top guys’ Even Strength Scoring results.

Lindholm ( 73rd in the NHL) has 13, Tkachuk (83) and Gaudreau (84) have 12 and Monahan has 11(121).

That is putrid production for a teams top forwards. If the team is going to make a run , those 4 players’ even strength points have to increase dramatically.

Yikes, that is horrid.

I think this is due to the motivation issues. 5-on-5 is a grind while the powerplay is fun. If Sutter can get them motivated and get them playing a full 60 minutes, those numbers are bound to improve. Skill isn't an issue. I mean yeah, we lack a bona fide game breaking forward who would be guaranteed to be a 1st liner on any team, but realistically, half the teams in the NHL can say the same thing. Players like that are rare. But we have four forwards that have PPG potential. Not a lot of teams can say that.

If anyone can motivate them, he can. If he can't, they need to seriously look at a roster shake-up in the offseason.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

@classic Sniper - you should listen to the interview yourself before assuming. Actually, everyone should just go to CalgaryFlames.com and listen to some of the interviews.


Sutter doesn't want to change the system because there isn't enough time to make big changes.



When he referenced style of play, yes, I guess you can come up with 'execution'.. sort of. Way more to do with compete and speed. Speed. SPEED. Execution isn't a style, but rather an outcome.


Will make adjustments to the system.


Anyway, just listen to the press conference, and make your own assumptions about what he means by certain things yourself from the additional context that he provided. Just one sentence soundbites makes it easier to come up with the wrong assumptions.


As for your thoughts on the Flames not being executing this season - sure, maybe it is lazy. However, maybe it is because they practice without any game pace, so they are not used to executing at game pace? Something to consider. These same core players seemed to execute at an elite level under Hartley and Peters (for the first while before the pace disappeared). They have been executing less and less well the longer they were under Ward.


I thought it was confusion. I didn't think it had anything to do with laziness. You can see this team put in some damn good efforts in periods and they were not executing. It is impossible to deny that they had some good efforts, with unimpressive results, so laziness can't explain it - definitely doesn't explain it all.

How do you explain this team playing with the required pace and speed to dictate/dominate play under Ward’s system in one period, then completely crap the bed and look as slow as molasses the next period? That doesn’t sound like the system to me and you’ve also got Bill Peters talking about playing with more speed and more pace constantly, so it doesn’t sound like the coaching or the message either.

Being naturally slow like a lot of Flames skaters are and/or being lazy seem like the more likely culprits. As I’ve said in the past, this team’s identity is probably more so “skill” than anything else and skilled players are inherently more lazy, so there might be something to that.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, Darryl didn't say the system was fine. But people hear what they want to hear.

The fact is that 30 games isn't a lot of time. It will be interesting to watch though, and to see how the players, and their style of play, adapt as we move forward.

“The system is correct, but the style we need to fix”

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/calgarys...12586dfc4/amp/

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

“The system is correct, but the style we need to fix”

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/calgarys...12586dfc4/amp/

Teams can win with all sorts of systems. The 2017 Senators made it to game 7 of the ECF playing a system that's a polar opposite of the 2013 Kings who made it to game 7 of the WCF.

Darryl doesn't want to completely overhaul the system because that transition period in itself could cost us a playoff spot.

That doesn't mean the system they'll ultimately be playing is the one he'd prefer for them to play.

It's simply what he has to work with, and he needs quick buy-in.

I've always thought of systems as players being "on a string". If X goes to A, Y knows to go to B, and Z knows to go to C. That takes time. It's about where to be ready, where to expect others to be, all that.

But basic principles?

Sutter has time to at least get this team playing a tighter checking game, and I do expect that, even within the limitations of Ward's systems.

I am 100% confident that come training camp next season, the systems will be revamped however.

[Calgary4LIfe]

@classic snipeer (can't quote).


Were they executing when they were dominating play? How has this team scored 5on5?


I have ZERO doubt that this team has had nights where most of them didn't show up to play. Absolutely the commitment wasn't there, and there was a lot of examples of them being lazy.


However, just like you said - they had periods (and even a few games, especially earlier in the season) when they dominated, but still lost. Their execution wasn't there. As the season unfolded, the execution got worse. Why? Just laziness? What about in the periods that they dominated (which happened even recently), but they not only failed to score, but would get scored on?


Just listen to the interview. Don't believe me. Listen to the interview, and at least draw your own conclusions on what Sutter wants to do, and what he meant, rather than guessing at it based on a few quotes here and there.


I bet you that in 15 games from now, this Flames team is going to be seen as a fairly fast team - above average at least.



The Oilers with Hall, Eberle, etc., looked like a slow team most of the time, with the occasional junior-level highlight reel move that worked sprinkled-in.


They look slow because they aren't used to playing fast. They aren't able to move the puck quickly enough. They hesitate a bit too long. They have trouble hitting one another with good passes when they are playing at speed. Parts of the system may be contributing to this (hence the 'adjustments').



We will just have to wait and see what happens instead of us both arguing until we are blue in the face. Listen to Sutter's interviews, listen to what the players are saying, and then come to your own conclusions after digesting it (and of course, taking into consideration what you have been seeing for yourself this season so far). There is a narrative there that will fit. You are 100% right that laziness was an issue at least sometimes, but perhaps you are seeing the effect of something else, rather than seeing the cause?



We will see for ourselves how slow this team really is. There are only a few players who are below average speed. I rank Monahan as average personally - but we will throw him into 'below average'. Monahan, Tkachuk, Lucic... anyone else? Are the three players really slowing everyone down? I don't think so.


Gaudreau, Backlund, Dube, Mangiapane, Bennett are all fast. Ryan is probably above average - or average at worst. Ritchie so far looks pretty good to me, as did Robinson. Nordstrom is very fast. Simon has good wheels. Did I miss anyone? Everyone on the back-end looks pretty good speed-wise to me.


So is this a physically slow team? Are 3 (2 in my opinion) players completely slowing down everyone else? Or is this 'slowness' a symptom of something else?

[Calgary4LIfe]

The media availability with Tanev, Tkachuck and Darryl after the first practice together is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDlJHddR2DU


It is beyond obvious that he wishes he had more time to make big changes to the system - including who plays where. The system is fine, it is the style - that's him saying that he won't be changing the system outside of making adjustments, and that he will get this team to play with more pace and more commitment as the 'style'.


It is all right there, clear as day.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, Darryl didn't say the system was fine. But people hear what they want to hear...

It was literally a direct quote from his post-practice availability yesterday.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How do you explain this team playing with the required pace and speed to dictate/dominate play under Ward’s system in one period, then completely crap the bed and look as slow as molasses the next period? That doesn’t sound like the system to me and you’ve also got Bill Peters talking about playing with more speed and more pace constantly, so it doesn’t sound like the coaching or the message either.

Being naturally slow like a lot of Flames skaters are and/or being lazy seem like the more likely culprits. As I’ve said in the past, this team’s identity is probably more so “skill” than anything else and skilled players are inherently more lazy, so there might be something to that.

The two bolded points contradict each other.

They aren't slow, they play slow. But I am confident that Sutter will fix that.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Teams can win with all sorts of systems. The 2017 Senators made it to game 7 of the ECF playing a system that's a polar opposite of the 2013 Kings who made it to game 7 of the WCF.

Darryl doesn't want to completely overhaul the system because that transition period in itself could cost us a playoff spot.

That doesn't mean the system they'll ultimately be playing is the one he'd prefer for them to play.

It's simply what he has to work with, and he needs quick buy-in.

I've always thought of systems as players being "on a string". If X goes to A, Y knows to go to B, and Z knows to go to C. That takes time. It's about where to be ready, where to expect others to be, all that.

But basic principles?

Sutter has time to at least get this team playing a tighter checking game, and I do expect that, even within the limitations of Ward's systems.

I am 100% confident that come training camp next season, the systems will be revamped however.

Your first point I agree with 100%. All sorts of systems can win, which also leads me to wonder why so many people in CP question systems so damn much. If so many systems can win, how does anyone know which systems are wrong and which ones are right? There aren’t 31 different systems in the NHL now, there’s probably only a handful that most teams use and whoever executes it the best generally has the best chance of winning.