[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[LiquidX]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Just wait until that changes to:

"when I was your age"

I'm already at the "Back in my day..." stage. I think that's the final stage before "Get off my lawn".

[Camronius]

Noticed a few comments on the play of JG and Monny as of late, as if we expect the play of those two to change by inserting Bennett. Do we honestly expect any difference in their play based on who slots in the last spot? So far only Hudler was able to find that chemistry, and I’m not convinced that wasn’t a bit of a flash in the pan.

We’ve seen these guys enough that we know it doesn’t matter who plays there. They are streaky, they are meh defensively (improved this year based on their commitment) and they are what they are. The discussion I think should focus around how Bennett performs in that spot vs. other spots and vs. other players. Does he outperform leivo, Simon and gang? I think so. Does he make the line exponentially better, no. Does he personally perform better in this spot vs. 2nd/3rd/4th lines? So far, yes. Can he provide something to that line in terms of toughness, and energy so that we’re able to roll 3 complete lines? yeah I think so.

For me it’s trying to get into the mold of vegas, rolling 3 2nd lines and out working teams by constant pressure.

I read that back and realized I did the loubo rhetorical questioning, ha...

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Camronius

I read that back and realized I did the loubo rhetorical questioning, ha...

People associate Loubo with that kind of questioning, but Rob Kerr was the guru of it back in the day.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Camronius

Noticed a few comments on the play of JG and Monny as of late, as if we expect the play of those two to change by inserting Bennett. Do we honestly expect any difference in their play based on who slots in the last spot? So far only Hudler was able to find that chemistry, and I’m not convinced that wasn’t a bit of a flash in the pan.

We’ve seen these guys enough that we know it doesn’t matter who plays there. They are streaky, they are meh defensively (improved this year based on their commitment) and they are what they are. The discussion I think should focus around how Bennett performs in that spot vs. other spots and vs. other players. Does he outperform leivo, Simon and gang? I think so. Does he make the line exponentially better, no. Does he personally perform better in this spot vs. 2nd/3rd/4th lines? So far, yes. Can he provide something to that line in terms of toughness, and energy so that we’re able to roll 3 complete lines? yeah I think so.

For me it’s trying to get into the mold of vegas, rolling 3 2nd lines and out working teams by constant pressure.

I read that back and realized I did the loubo rhetorical questioning, ha...

Why does everyone forget the purple drink line?

[robertsfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Why does everyone forget the purple drink line?

Best Flames t-shirt I’ve ever owned.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by 868904

Didn't Zucker already kill a deal to Calgary? He still has a 10 team no trade list and I bet the Flames are on that.

I think Kapanen probably makes sense for both teams. Flames finally get a responsible, big and speedy two way winger for Johnny and Mony and the Penguins get to reunite Bennett with Jankowski!

Originally Posted by transplant99

Is that what happened? I really dont recall exactly what that whole screw up was about.

Anyhow, i was just spitballin...no idea who they would be targetting.

If I remember correctly it was all but done before someone in management for Minny interfered and the paperwork never got submitted on time. Zucker never vetoed Calgary himself, someone else was the reason for it to not work.

That's why Treliving was visibly irate after that one because the deal was done, Frolik and first for Zucker then some meddling from higher ups made us miss our chance

[Toonage]

Probably for the best. Wasn't that pick used to get Pelletier?

[BigErnSalute_16]

I hate the idea of trading Bennett but one guy I've seen in the rumours that I might not mind getting back would be Nichushkin from Colorado. Similar pedigree to Bennett as he was a top 10 pick too. Plays a power game and has good underlying defensive numbers. The difference? he's a pure winger opposed to Bennett who I think is best at centre. Plus he's comfortable on RW despite shooting left. And I think unlike Bennett he has accepted his role of a 3rd line winger.

I think at 6'4 220 he'd be a perfect fit with Backlund and Mangiapane on line 3 or could even catch some lightning in a bottle with Johnny and Monahan similar to what Ferland did.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by New Era

I agree to an extent. If Bennett can continue his play it would help the team if they can find the right combination. I still don't see a fit with Gaudreau and Monahan.

Yes, Bennett is working hard and running around, but he still doesn't make anything happen for the guys he's playing with. Bennett's game is all about chaos, which Gaudreau and Monahan play a game of control. Bennett is dump and chase, crash and bang, while Gaudreau and Monahan are puck control and score off the rush. What I am seeing is a lot more play along the boards and pucks circling the boards. What makes the pair effective is their use of open ice and exploiting gaps. Bennett doesn't get this and actually clogs up the gaps because of his physical bull in a china shop approach. Bennett more often than not ends up in the same space as one of his linemates which makes the play die quickly. For a line that lives and dies on flow, they have put in place a disruptive force to what makes the line successful.

Here's the tough thing. There are two slots open for Bennett IMO. With Gaudreau and Monahan or with the 4th liners. Bennett's game is more like the latter than the former, but the team needs him to be successful in the former. This is a square peg being hammered into the proverbial round hole. He may be trying hard, and the fans may love his hustle, but the efficacy of the line is not high. I'd say give him to the Toronto trip and see if they can produce. We should know by the Toronto games if there is any hope. If he doesn't produce in six games versus Vancouver and Edmonton then the experiment is likely over. The bottom line is the line has to produce and he has to produce. If he plays well but the line can't score, his personal success is for naught.

If you could pick any two players on the Flames to play with Bennett to maximize his skill set who would those be? Or if was traded what team has the ideal line mates for him?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If you could pick any two players on the Flames to play with Bennett to maximize his skill set who would those be? Or if was traded what team has the ideal line mates for him?

Lucic and Dube. It's the only combination that Bennett has shown a degree of success with over any period of time. Unfortunately that would be the 4th line and I think that is a waste of Dube's talent.

As to what team has ideal line mates for him, I don't know and really don't care. I don't hope for success for specific players (that's so Edmonton Oilers fanish) especially after they leave the Flames. Once they are gone I don't care about them and I don't wish them any success whatsoever. So the second Bennett is traded he's dead to me and I couldn't care less about him. If I was pressed I would say trade him to Detroit. No reason other than they are years away from the playoffs and I wouldn't have to listen to the ridiculous "playoff Sam Bennett" stuff any more.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

As to what team has ideal line mates for him, I don't know and really don't care. I don't hope for success for specific players (that's so Edmonton Oilers fanish) especially after they leave the Flames. Once they are gone I don't care about them and I don't wish them any success whatsoever. So the second Bennett is traded he's dead to me and I couldn't care less about him. If I was pressed I would say trade him to Detroit. No reason other than they are years away from the playoffs and I wouldn't have to listen to the ridiculous "playoff Sam Bennett" stuff any more.

God, you are petty.

It is "Oilers fanish" to hope for the best for people? What a horribly cynical, selfish and jaded view. As much as I love the Flames I personally cannot get over the fact that the team is comprised of actual persons with actual lives. Having invested in them by association with the team's success, I cannot help but continue to hope for their success after they are gone.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by New Era

Lucic and Dube. It's the only combination that Bennett has shown a degree of success with over any period of time. Unfortunately that would be the 4th line and I think that is a waste of Dube's talent.

As to what team has ideal line mates for him, I don't know and really don't care. I don't hope for success for specific players (that's so Edmonton Oilers fanish) especially after they leave the Flames. Once they are gone I don't care about them and I don't wish them any success whatsoever. So the second Bennett is traded he's dead to me and I couldn't care less about him. If I was pressed I would say trade him to Detroit. No reason other than they are years away from the playoffs and I wouldn't have to listen to the ridiculous "playoff Sam Bennett" stuff any more.

Seriously, why do you even participate in this particular thread? It's obvious you hate Sam Bennett at an irrational level. We all know that. you aren't adding anything to this thread except negativity.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by New Era

Disagree. Winning is why we like the game. You could have a bunch of faceless robots out there and people would come and cheer so long as they won. You could have a team full of Anthony Deangelos out there and the crowds would come to watch so long as the team won. Winning solves all problems in professional sports.

Nope. nope nope nope. Sports arent sports without the personal aspect. Nobody would watch any sport if it was played by robots. And I was considering boycotting the flames if they even acquired one Deangelo so a team full of them would also be a no go for a lot of people. So you are just straight up wrong here. So don't try to pass off your ####ed up, jaded, negative and pessimistic view of sports in general as some kind of enlightened higher thinking that everyone is on the same page about. Because they are not and you are very wrong about this.

[bluejays]

Man, some of you take discussions way too personal. Take a breather and realize you’re arguing on a forum.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

Nope. nope nope nope. Sports arent sports without the personal aspect. Nobody would watch any sport if it was played by robots. And I was considering boycotting the flames if they even acquired one Deangelo so a team full of them would also be a no go for a lot of people. So you are just straight up wrong here. So don't try to pass off your ####ed up, jaded, negative and pessimistic view of sports in general as some kind of enlightened higher thinking that everyone is on the same page about. Because they are not and you are very wrong about this.

Did you display this much moral outrage when the Flames employed Bertuzzi or Marchment? No, you probably swallowed your pride and continued to cheer for the TEAM even though they had a couple of reprehensible ######bags on the roster. Yeah, easy to talk a big game about turning your back on the team, but reality is very different. The Flames employing a racist would not be the worst thing they have ever done.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

God, you are petty.

It is "Oilers fanish" to hope for the best for people? What a horribly cynical, selfish and jaded view. As .ugh as I love the Flames I personally cannot get over the fact that the team is comprised of actual persons with actual lives. Having invested in them by association with the team's success, I cannot help but continue to hope for their success after they are gone.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

What's your problem? I was asked a question and I answered it honestly. And yes, it is Oiler fanish to be so invested in a player that you would put their interests above the team. When you are that invested in a player's individual success that you would cheer for their personal success over that of the goals and success of the team, you're lost. They honestly don't care that the Oilers suck and lose, so long as McDavid and Draisaitl get their points. It's lame. I never understood how people could be so hoodwinked by the cult of personality and putting Fleury or Iginla above of the team. It is almost Trumpian and cultish in a way. I'm just not wired that way and only care about the team as a whole. Every player is a cog and a means to an end.

[Loyal and True]

The only way for the team to get better is if the players play better. I don't see how "team" and "players" is mutually exclusive.

For Bennett, this is a huge opportunity against the Canucks in 4 game series if he continues to play with JG and SM.

Those two get quite a few points on PP, but if they can also produce a little 5 on 5 with Bennett contributing and buzzing then that's good for everybody.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Completely agree. If Bennett was looking for an opportunity this is it. He's playing with the two best offensive players against a really bad hockey team for four straight games. This is a time to step up and produce.

[Red]

Originally Posted by fleury

Man, some of you take discussions way too personal. Take a breather and realize you’re arguing on a forum.

Years of voicing strong opinions (good or bad) about certain players puts people in an awkward position later on. Admit to being wrong or double down and get personal. If you can't defend the indefensible, you attack the person delivering the opposite opinion. And there are a few here that love doing just that.

If the mods gave week long time outs to people that post personal drive bys and personal attacks that don't offer any counter opinion, the discussions here would clean up in a hurry.
We could then have discussions with positive, negative and indifferent opinions.

[GioforPM]

For me, once a player leaves the team, even one of my favourites, I find it pretty hard to muster a lot of feelings for them, especially say, after a season. Including Iginla, Reg, or any of the cup winning team, etc.

To some degree some posters want players to do well to say I told you so as much as they want it because they like the guy. I’m certain that would have been the case with Sven, for example, if it had happened.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

What's your problem? I was asked a question and I answered it honestly.

My problem is that through your answer you have revealed yourself to be a particularly callous and unpleasant person.

And yes, it is Oiler fanish to be so invested in a player that you would put their interests above the team. When you are that invested in a player's individual success that you would cheer for their personal success over that of the goals and success of the team, you're lost.

I have never done nor advocated for any of this. How is it so difficult for you to grasp that one can SIMULTANEOUSLY prioritise his own team's success while also extending best wishes for success to players from opposing teams.

They honestly don't care that the Oilers suck and lose, so long as McDavid and Draisaitl get their points. It's lame. I never understood how people could be so hoodwinked by the cult of personality and putting Fleury or Iginla above of the team.

How does any of this have any relevance to what I was talking about?

It is almost Trumpian and cultish in a way. I'm just not wired that way and only care about the team as a whole. Every player is a cog and a means to an end.

Your rhetoric is extreme and disingenuous. It is offensive that you equate well-wishes for another human being with a sick, cult of personality. There are people in this world who are genuinely upstanding and worthy of my respect, admiration and endearment—even those whom you or I have never met. The fact that Iginla finished his professional hockey career playing in Pittsburgh, Boston, Denver and LA in no way diminishes his quality as a person and a player whom I admire. In the end, hockey is just a fun game, and part of what makes it fun is getting enjoyment from watching and marvelling at the great players from every team who play it.