DC Capitol Riot & Subsequent Fallout Thread (Jan 2021)

[Northendzone]

wow, certainly lots to unpack from yesterday. hopefully the worst is over. I could not help but wonder if any of the 4 that died had any idea of their destiny 24 hrs ago.

not sure if this has been discussed already, but did anyone see that CTV News tweet that said "trump doesn't ask backers to disperse after storming US capitol". I saw a video where Trump disputed the election results and then asked people to go home. The clip was about 1 minute long.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

wow, certainly lots to unpack from yesterday. hopefully the worst is over. I could not help but wonder if any of the 4 that died had any idea of their destiny 24 hrs ago.

not sure if this has been discussed already, but did anyone see that CTV News tweet that said "trump doesn't ask backers to disperse after storming US capitol". I saw a video where Trump disputed the election results and then asked people to go home. The clip was about 1 minute long.

In real time, he was way late. He sent out a tweet after it started that didn’t ask them to go home. Then it was being reported from whitehouse correspondents that aids were begging the President to release a clear message for people to disperse. Buddy had his feet up on Pelosi’s desk before that video came out, which opened with a ton of inflammatory statements, only making things worse. Before, yes, finally saying “go home... we love you”.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1347175086432907272

[Pointman]

Still not as bad, as it was 20 years ago. When the election was actually stolen, by supreme court no less. And when the country was so misled and fooled, it resulted in a war in Iraq over the fathom "weapons of mass destruction". Many see this as a nadir of USA and a massive damage to its reputation, but I would argue that the country as whole passed the test this time.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by transplant99

https://twitter.com/user/status/1347175086432907272

I really hope the elected member from WEST Virginia gets charged. He was super polite in the film he posted of his break and entry into Congress though.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Mull

I really hope the elected member from Virginia gets charged. He was super polite in the film he posted of his break and entry into Congress though.

*West Virginia.

Don't drag the good name of Virginians into this.

[transplant99]

I mean....was there ANY question what the purpose was yesterday?

[driveway]

Originally Posted by psyang

Listening to the debate, it sounds like the Republicans were basing their objection on one argument - that PA made changes to their voting laws outside of state legislators, which goes against the constitution. It wasn't about allegations of voter fraud (at least, not directly) or other conspiracy theories, but only about upholding the constitution.

That argument was demolished by Judge Brett Ludwig (appointed by Trump) in Trump v. Wisconsin Elections Commission.

The judge said that argument is meritless because the “manner” of appointing presidential electors is already determined to be by popular vote, and by saying only state legislatures can determine a state’s voting rules, the president’s argument “confuses and conflates” appointing presidential electors with basic election administration.

Here is a link to the full opinion. It's very well written and easy to follow, even for someone with no legal background whatsoever. The relevant pages about this argument about the Elector's Clause of the Constitution - which seems to have become the main thrust of the non-fraud arguments by conservatives starts on page 9.

It comes down to the fact that the "Manner" in the Constitution is the very basic "how" Electors are chosen: Legislative appointment, general election, trial-by-combat, whatever. Once the legislature passes laws on the Manner, within those laws they set up structures to execute the method of the election. This would include things like election commissions, if it's an election is there mail voting, who can decide when and how ballots go out, if it's trial-by-combat on which white ox shall the sharpness of the blade be tested, that kind of thing.

The changes that all these Republicans are objecting to are changes to the method of the election, not the manner. Method changes are covered by existing State laws, if a State has delegated to the Election Commission the power to extend voting hours, then that's legal in that State and a decision by the Election Commission to do just that does not require the State Legislature to act as it is not a change to the manner of the choice of Electors.

Following the Republican argument to its conclusion, you arrive at the point where any changes to any regulations governing powers given to the States by the Constitution would require legislation. For example, States govern education. The Republicans are essentially arguing that it would be unconstitutional for a curriculum review committee, created and empowered by the Legislature to make changes to State curriculum, to actually make those changes without a subsequent act of the State Legislature.

It's an idiotic argument and the legal explanation for why it's idiotic already exists and was written by a judge Trump himself appointed.

[transplant99]

OK....this made me laugh

https://twitter.com/user/status/1347026407294201863

[Wormius]

Who gets charged for the deaths of those 4 people? In the US aren’t accomplices held responsible, even if the police killed the person? If you have thousands of people involved, do they all get charged?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by transplant99

https://twitter.com/user/status/1347175086432907272

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/in...nvs/index.html

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Who gets charged for the deaths of those 4 people? In the US aren’t accomplices held responsible, even if the police killed the person? If you have thousands of people involved, do they all get charged?

I think 3 were due to health reasons incurred by the riot.
IF they were engaging in the riot, personal responsibility comes into play to me.
IF they were innocent bystanders, cops, etc, I imagine no one unless direct evidence can prove they were the direct cause (ignoring the Trump, Republicans pushes for it to occur).

The one shot by the cop, well, hopefully a full investigation is performed.

[combustiblefuel]

I can't remember which senator was talking at the time but he mentioned a security personnel from what he saw will most likely lose one of his eyes.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

https://twitter.com/user/status/1346944617774686208

Check out the video. This guy smashes the window with a riot shield and then hesitates, and stands back to let others risk going in first. What a little bitch.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/in...nvs/index.html

That's a great article. I like that it is calling all these guys out by name, and really debunks all the attempted mis-direction that these were anything other than the hard core Trump groups

Barnett, 60, later showed reporters outside the Capitol an envelope that he said he took from Pelosi's desk. "I didn't steal it," he said of the envelope, which was addressed to another member of Congress, in a video posted on Twitter by a New York Times reporter. "I put a quarter on her desk even though she ain't ######ing worth it." He said he also left a note on her desk that said "Nancy, Bigo was here you b*tch" and claimed that he was Maced.

[Northendzone]

fair enough, as i was not paying minute by minute attention to the festivities.
I wonder if CTV offered up a clarification on the tweet.

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

In real time, he was way late. He sent out a tweet after it started that didn’t ask them to go home. Then it was being reported from whitehouse correspondents that aids were begging the President to release a clear message for people to disperse. Buddy had his feet up on Pelosi’s desk before that video came out, which opened with a ton of inflammatory statements, only making things worse. Before, yes, finally saying “go home... we love you”.

[calf]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I mean....was there ANY question what the purpose was yesterday?

OMG doesn't he know that the mask will deprive his brain of oxygen?

[Robo]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I mean....was there ANY question what the purpose was yesterday?

They have a date on their shirts I'm assuming most of them thought it would be over and won in one day

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

fair enough, as i was not paying minute by minute attention to the festivities.
I wonder if CTV offered up a clarification on the tweet.

What do you want clarified? He encouraged them, fired them up at a rally, released them on the capitol, sent a tweet asking them to “remain peaceful” after they occupied the capitol building, then tweeted out “this is what happens”.

So, in one sentence, are we to claim that “Trump asked people to go home”? Or, is that not at all accurate?

[stang]

So is it over or they still at it?