In non apocolypse related news...jesus's childhood home may have been found

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What makes you think so? This is something that contemporary historians or government officials from the time might claim, but since virtually no actual records survive from the period, then we have no idea about how meticulous any of them were. To be clear here, when I speak of "records" in this context it is with reference to court filings (if there even were such things), official imperial and government papers and the like sort. None of these documents have survived.


Because no official records have survived from the first century. Period.


You are misinformed. The only physical evidence for the existence of Pontius Pilate is an inscription excavated from the port of Caesarea, the Gospels, and the writings of Josephus from the end of the first century.


Because he was not an important figure. In his lifetime Jesus was not well known, and he made an almost imperceptible impression on his contemporaries. He was a rather commonplace apocalyptic prophet with a very similar message—how many other apocalyptic Jewish prophets from the first century are we aware of? If anything, it is pretty remarkable that we know anything at all about Jesus.

Thank you for the response. I'll take this all in as an expert's opinion and be more skeptical of the sources I read.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Thank you for the response. I'll take this all in as an expert's opinion and be more skeptical of the sources I read.

I am interested to know where you read or heard about the supposed records of Pontius Pilate? What are they?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

My thoughts are religious Christians just plug their ears and atheists could care less, If I'm wrong please post a link where a good percentage people give a damn whether a regular human Jesus existed.

If he did as just a human doesn't it blow away Christianity as a bid fraud?

If you are a devout Christian then you already think Christ existed as the son of God but as a man so it wouldn't alter your faith

There really isnt anything from that period we could discover that would alter either sides beliefs, I suspect concrete proof of Jesus's existence, a Roman Court record or the like would be seen as proof of Christ as the son of God by the faithful even though it would add nothing to either side of the argument.

I am constantly surprised at how evengelicals try to look for concrete proof for their beliefs despite the bible being clear, you are supposed to believe due to no more than faith, I have a few a facebook friends that post bizarre claims for intelligent design that they insist prove that the world is only 6000 years old, I mean full on creationist gibberish, I try to be mindful of the fact it is their belief and they arent bad people so I am not as scathing as I could be but I do enjoy pointing out to them that even if you could prove intelligent design that doesnt in and of itself prove the existence of God, a fact that really effed one of my friends minds up unfortunatly, he'd never really considered it, got quite angry with me!!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

My thoughts are religious Christians just plug their ears and atheists could care less, If I'm wrong please post a link where a good percentage people give a damn whether a regular human Jesus existed.

If he did as just a human doesn't it blow away Christianity as a bid fraud?

If he did what? Started a Cult and got cruxcified?

I’m not sure Christianity or any Religion was ever based in logic so why would historical evidence that Jesus existed change that. Note that evidence of a historical Jesus is not evidence that Jesus was not divine. We can certainly say there is a lack of evidence for a divine Jesus

As for whether people care about the existence of Jesus books supporting his historical existence and those trying to debunk it have appears on New York Times best sellers list. So I think that puts it well above .1% that care.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If you are a devout Christian then you already think Christ existed as the son of God but as a man so it wouldn't alter your faith

There really isnt anything from that period we could discover that would alter either sides beliefs, I suspect concrete proof of Jesus's existence, a Roman Court record or the like would be seen as proof of Christ as the son of God by the faithful even though it would add nothing to either side of the argument.

I am constantly surprised at how evengelicals try to look for concrete proof for their beliefs despite the bible being clear, you are supposed to believe due to no more than faith, I have a few a facebook friends that post bizarre claims for intelligent design that they insist prove that the world is only 6000 years old, I mean full on creationist gibberish, I try to be mindful of the fact it is their belief and they arent bad people so I am not as scathing as I could be but I do enjoy pointing out to them that even if you could prove intelligent design that doesnt in and of itself prove the existence of God, a fact that really effed one of my friends minds up unfortunatly, he'd never really considered it, got quite angry with me!!

That was me many years ago. I learned later that the hard core believers have faith that goes way beyond the concrete evidence barrier. They couldn't explain why or how they got to that point, other than they just knew.

FWIW I couldn't get past the concrete evidence thing and left the church.

[djsFlames]

Nm

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Dion

That was me many years ago. I learned later that the hard core believers have faith that goes way beyond the concrete evidence barrier. They couldn't explain why or how they got to that point, other than they just knew.

FWIW I couldn't get past the concrete evidence thing and left the church.

I actually have more respect for that than the wack jobs trying to prove that Noah had dinosaurs on the ark because there is a picture of a lizard on some tomb in Somalia or something.

I grew up Anglican which is really the perfect form of Christianty, you get all of the benefits, a warm glow of salvation, excellent choirs and hymns and some really lovely churches and cathedrals but without any of that fundy true believer proselytizing nonsense, I almost miss it, like you though I have come to believe its all a bit foolish

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Dion

That was me many years ago. I learned later that the hard core believers have faith that goes way beyond the concrete evidence barrier. They couldn't explain why or how they got to that point, other than they just knew.

FWIW I couldn't get past the concrete evidence thing and left the church.

That's why it's called "faith". You don't need evidence or logic.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I grew up Anglican which is really the perfect form of Christianty, you get all of the benefits, a warm glow of salvation, excellent choirs and hymns and some really lovely churches and cathedrals but without any of that fundy true believer proselytizing nonsense, I almost miss it, like you though I have come to believe its all a bit foolish

I miss it terribly. It was a warm and welcoming community, and a great, safe place for my family to grow. It has been difficult figuring how to replicate that.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[psyang]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I miss it terribly. It was a warm and welcoming community, and a great, safe place for my family to grow. It has been difficult figuring how to replicate that.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I think, now, more than ever, there are people of faith (not just Christians) going through the painful process of deconstruction. For some, it leads to (for them) a cleaner, purer faith. For others it leads to the complete loss of faith. But I doubt anyone goes through that process without scars.

The good news is, as a consequence, there are many more avenues for support regardless of where you fall. For me personally, I haven't abandoned my faith, but I do wrestle constantly with truth and spirituality. The list of tenets I hold to has shrunk considerably. I know people online and in person with whom I chat regularly, and it helps a lot. I hope (if you haven't already) you can find a community that you can draw encouragement and support from.

Hit me up if you want to chat, or just vent. I'm always willing to listen.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I grew up Anglican which is really the perfect form of Christianty, you get all of the benefits, a warm glow of salvation, excellent choirs and hymns and some really lovely churches and cathedrals but without any of that fundy true believer proselytizing nonsense, I almost miss it, like you though I have come to believe its all a bit foolish

The hardest part wasn't losing my faith but the people you meet over the years. I miss the people and friendships I formed over the years.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Dion

The hardest part wasn't losing my faith but the people you meet over the years. I miss the people and friendships I formed over the years.

coming to Canada pretty much did that, the Churches here are so different from what I think of as a church, in my mind a church is 5 or 600 hundred years old, stone, big with stained glass windows and quiet that when I got here and found these wooden modern fairly plain churches I just didnt feel a connection, bit shallow I know.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I miss it terribly. It was a warm and welcoming community, and a great, safe place for my family to grow. It has been difficult figuring how to replicate that.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Never having had it, I do lament the lack of secular community institutions, I honestly think it's part of the reason so many parents have gone to over scheduling their kids lives.

This year has sucked, but I really do enjoy sitting around watching whatever sports my kids are doing and chatting with other parents. (sports fees, it's the new tithing).

[Cheese]

The Hymns, the Incense, the Chanting, the people, are all part of a process to help addict one to those surroundings. Breaking away is as difficult, or moreso, than cessation of smoking.


So add a little of it to your Sunday home. Music you love, classical is a nice alternative, light some incense or a scented candle if you like, invite some friends over for brunch or just your family, (when safe to do so), talk about important things and take solace in the fact we have this one life to enjoy.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by #-3

Never having had it, I do lament the lack of secular community institutions.

There is no lack. What are you interested in? Follow your bliss.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by troutman

There is no lack. What are you interested in? Follow your bliss.

Simple exceptional advice from troutman.

There are lots of "things" to give you that sense of belong.

For me it is my rugby club(s) they have been an accepting safe place since I was 16.

I try to explain to people but there is something about the sanctity of the changing room. I feel comfortable, I feel at home.

I miss it greatly now I no longer play.

As troutman said, what makes you happy pursue it, there are clubs/associations for never every type of interest.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am interested to know where you read or heard about the supposed records of Pontius Pilate? What are they?

It was a documentary on something like History Channel. It's been a while and I took it as being on the up and up.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by troutman

There is no lack. What are you interested in? Follow your bliss.

I guess I layed it out in my post. I put a lot of my energy into my kids, so that's were my money goes, that's were I spend my free time. I was speculating that a lot of people do, and that's why kids have become so over-scheduled

Clearly I do it, so I'm not making a judgement call on if thats good or bad.

But I think the point is religion is a lot more successful at building community.
It's something the secular community needs to be very aware of as the current batch of religions fades into obscurity.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by #-3

I guess I layed it out in my post. I put a lot of my energy into my kids, so that's were my money goes, that's were I spend my free time. I was speculating that a lot of people do, and that's why kids have become so over-scheduled

Clearly I do it, so I'm not making a judgement call on if thats good or bad.

But I think the point is religion is a lot more successful at building community.
It's something the secular community needs to be very aware of as the current batch of religions fades into obscurity.

The Mormon church in High River did that during the flood of 2013. They got a lot of respect from the community for the efforts they did in helping out flooded residents.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Dion

The Mormon church in High River did that during the flood of 2013. They got a lot of respect from the community for the efforts they did in helping out flooded residents.

Bit literal, but yes.

It's something we secularists just aren't good enough at, and it's a problem that needs solving.