Who cares about how it sounds if it doesn't convey your message? 'Reallocate Police Funds' sounds fine and its more clear as to what you want. Also hearing about what some protesters want and I hope its just some, they keep talking about literally getting rid of police forces and prisons instead of reforming them. Now that's just plain DUMB.
I don't believe anything this organisation puts out because its literally the most corrupt, biased, unfair, unbalance, narrative driven organisation EVER. What a colossal waste of taxpayer money to have this POS organization exist. Maybe a long time ago it might've served a purpose, but now all it ever does is release information and studies that never tell the whole story and ignore any facts and statistics that might explain the outcomes that they find. You'd be better off abolishing this useless department and redirected the funds to help at risk communities and it would actually benefit those people more than whatever pointless crap the OHRC put out to justify its existence.
So pretty much all this supports the fact that black people in the GTA are far more violent and criminal than anyone else, which leads to more police interactions and considering these are violent criminals, I seriously doubt they like cooperating with police in a peaceful manner which means they're more likely to have violent interactions with police. Seems pretty simple and doesn't look to have much to do with racism or one race/ethnic group of people being treated better than any other simply based on skin color.
What kind of criminal record are we talking about? I seriously doubt that there are more white people with violent criminal records especially to do with guns than black people having violent criminal records where violent crimes and murder are involved.
In Toronto in 2014 they had 177 shootings for the ENTIRE YEAR. In 2019 they had a historic record setting 490 shootings and this year Toronto is 33 shootings AHEAD OF YEAR'S PACE. I think everyone knows who's committing the vast majority of shootings here so I would love to see how many black criminals have a record with violent crimes involved in comparison to white people and I bet it will be much higher. I think that matters more than simply saying 'more white people have a criminal record'.
But how can we definitively say this is 100% race related and not have other factors be involved? Also take a look here where out of 461 fatal encounters with police in Canada between 2000-2017 only 43 or so people killed by police were black. So 43 deaths of black people in 17 years for ALL of Canada where 10 of them were unarmed. For Toronto specifically its 19 black people killed by Toronto police over 17 years.
That's not nothing, but that's pretty damn far from being an epidemic don't you think?
In Toronto/GTA there's definitely more than 19 black people being murdered here every single year and yet somehow that's seen as a low priority problem that groups like BLM don't think is worth their time and can't get even a fraction of the protests and attention that supposed rampant police brutality and killing of black people do.
BLM had a protest today against police brutality and 'anti-black racism' even as less than 12 hours ago there were 3 shootings in the city including ever increasing numbers of drive-by shootings and highway shootings yet somehow police brutality and supposed racism against them is the biggest problem black people need to deal with right now?
They literally just arrested three16 year old boys that tried to murder two people and THAT'S not a problem they should be tackling first?
More shootings than ever and more underaged kids who haven't even reached adulthood who are committing serious violent crimes and murders and they think police and racism are the problem??!
I agree. I would be in favor of having some mental health professionals be available to handle mental health calls so that police don't have to do it.
I'm too tired to respond to this post substantively, and so this is probably unfair, but whatever: I think you have serious issues with race. I'm sorry but your conclusions appear to be based on stereotypes, not data or rational conclusions drawn therefrom.
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Where are you talking about because that sure as hell ain't true in Toronto. Almost all the shootings there are committed by black males and they're on a new record setting pace this year after having a historic record 490 shootings last year.
I'm not saying there aren't possibly gangs that involve asians, arabs, whites etc., but if there are they sure as hell aren't shooting up the city and stabbing people the way that black males are in Toronto. And they sure as hell aren't having their underage kids going out and trying to murder people and commit other violent crimes because our justice system IS A JOKE that doesn't punish these people properly.
Also doesn't Calgary/Edmonton have some issues with black gangs? And I think I've read of some issues in Ottawa too.
And carding is just a STUPID ISSUE that black people always like to complain about but they can't seem to understand that that mostly has to do with the high amounts of crime and violence they commit. I would be in favor of removing carding completely and then see what else black people will complain about when it does nothing to lower their crime rates and make their communities safer.
Exhibit #2.
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Where are you talking about because that sure as hell ain't true in Toronto. Almost all the shootings there are committed by black males and they're on a new record setting pace this year after having a historic record 490 shootings last year.
I'm not saying there aren't possibly gangs that involve asians, arabs, whites etc., but if there are they sure as hell aren't shooting up the city and stabbing people the way that black males are in Toronto. And they sure as hell aren't having their underage kids going out and trying to murder people and commit other violent crimes because our justice system IS A JOKE that doesn't punish these people properly.
Anyone who follows the "rap" scene would be able to confirm that the "BIGGEST" gang violence in the GTA is 100% black male driven. I don't doubt there's significant asian/arab/lebanese etc gang violence as well but its definitely not as high profile/high scale as black gangs.
Regent park is one of the poorest neighborhoods in all of Canada at 70% below the poverty line.
Here's a video highlighting some of it for those interested, its pretty crazy and doesn't appear to be any end in sight.
Anyone who follows the "rap" scene would be able to confirm that the "BIGGEST" gang violence in the GTA is 100% black male driven. I don't doubt there's significant asian/arab/lebanese etc gang violence as well but its definitely not as high profile/high scale as black gangs.
Regent park is one of the poorest neighborhoods in all of Canada at 70% below the poverty line.
Here's a video highlighting some of it for those interested, its pretty crazy and doesn't appear to be any end in sight.
YouTube videos and "following the rap scene"... credible and reliable sources of evidence for even the most disciplined and rigorous social scientist. Impressive.
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"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
Anyone who follows the "rap" scene would be able to confirm that the "BIGGEST" gang violence in the GTA is 100% black male driven. I don't doubt there's significant asian/arab/lebanese etc gang violence as well but its definitely not as high profile/high scale as black gangs.
Regent park is one of the poorest neighborhoods in all of Canada at 70% below the poverty line.
Here's a video highlighting some of it for those interested, its pretty crazy and doesn't appear to be any end in sight.
Does that highlight issues with some disproportionately low income neighborhoods?
Holy crap I live under a rock. If that YouTube video has any truth, I am glad to have my boring life.
YouTube videos and "following the rap scene"... credible and reliable sources of evidence for even the most disciplined and rigorous social scientist. Impressive.
I mean, its credible evidence but you can choose to ignore it and clamor the "internet/youtube is real life" narrative all you want. These kids are dying (but fake I suppose) but hey just because it doesn't fit your mold of what is real and not real I guess ignore it and make fun. Feel free to use your superior internet knowledge to look it up yourself.
Keep watching the the CNN/Fox/MSNBC news outlets because those are a lot better
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctorfever
Does that highlight issues with some disproportionately low income neighborhoods?
Holy crap I live under a rock. If that YouTube video has any truth, I am glad to have my boring life.
I knew nothing about this myself until someone linked me this earlier today, I had no idea how big the gang violence in Toronto actually was.
Low income definitely is the highlighted issue here, these kids grow up in poverty from day 1 and gang violence is all they know.
I'm too tired to respond to this post substantively, and so this is probably unfair, but whatever: I think you have serious issues with race. I'm sorry but your conclusions appear to be based on stereotypes, not data or rational conclusions drawn therefrom.
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Because none of that is relevant to the shooting. He could have served 30 years in jail for murder and just got out. It's not relevant. He could have punched a cop in the face. It's not relevant. The only thing that would be relevant if he did something that made him an immediate deadly threat, and he didn't.
Bad patterns of behaviour are irrelevant. Each interaction with cops is unique on it's own. If an all-around angel pulls a gun on a cop and gets shot, it doesn't matter how much of an angel he was. If someone with a criminal record the size of the state of Texas poses no lethal threat and gets shot by a cop while he's walking away, it doesn't matter how much of a criminal he was.
It's only relevant to people who want to justify the shooting in ways it cannot be justified. You're free to bring it up, but it doesn't matter. Either cops shooting people in the back is something you're ok with, and cops choking people to death when they're no threat to them is something you're ok with, or it's not.
Protesters do care about laws. Do rioters and looters? No, but why confuse them? If every protester is no different than a rioter and looter, every white man is no different than a white supremacist.
The protests are entirely based around the demand that police officers do their jobs – properly. What that means is arresting an unarmed Black man without killing him or shooting him multiple times, it also means arresting a White shooter without killing him or shooting him multiple times. Police seem to regularly fail at half that.
Nobody deserves to be killed who isn't an immediate deadly threat. You understand that, right? Prostestors, Black people, White people, people defending property. An unarmed Black man with a warrant deserves to be treated the same as a White shooter carrying a gun at least.
I think if everyone (of any race) complied with police demands to stand down fewer people would be shot/killed.
I think if everyone (of any race) complied with police demands to stand down fewer people would be shot/killed.
People still die in custody . Even if they don't die in custody there are so many cases and stories of people being beaten and abused in custody. That fight or flight mode kicks in. People ae scared of the police and all levels of the justice system. You realize how many people are pressured into false testimony and confess to things they have not done. The whole system is ####ed.
Notable recent deaths
Freddie gray died from a tactic Baltimore's police used called " rough rides"
When they use to throw people in the back of a police van and drive them around erattically to bounce them around the back.
Elliott E willams died due to physical trauma, Starvation and dehydration.
Micheal Tryee was beaten to death by 3 guards . Thos guards were convited of his murder.
Darren Rainey a mentally ill black man was thrown into a shower and locked in it for 2 hours. There was no control over the water temp or duration. He was found with burns of 90% of his body. He was found dead due to scalding to death.
The Marshall Project is a great resource that keeps track of these kinds of things.
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Sounds like you are an expert in statistics to try and convince yourself of false messages...now remember to divide by the fact that 13.4% of the US is black and 63% is white (~2.5X). Based on your own math - If you are a black man, you are 5X as likely to be shot as a black man than if you were white.
All of this disregards the discussion that we should be having which is that black's in the US and aboriginals in Canada are not born/hardwired to be criminals. How do we solve the problems in these communities and how do we fix the biases throughout the system that continue to treat them as such when they are not. I am always amazed by the entitlement of people that have done nothing except having the luck of being born into the right family...
Total population is irrelevant. Violent crimes committed is the important stat. We are not counting grandma and grandpa and everyone else minding their business because they aren’t being shot. These shootings occur when violent criminals commit crime and unfortunately black people do commit violent crimes at a disproportional rate. Violent crime disparities are the cause of what you see to be a shooting disparity. But stick to your narrative if you would like. The truth is black peoples aren’t being gunned down by racist cops.
Total population is irrelevant. Violent crimes committed is the important stat. We are not counting grandma and grandpa and everyone else minding their business because they aren’t being shot. These shootings occur when violent criminals commit crime and unfortunately black people do commit violent crimes at a disproportional rate. Violent crime disparities are the cause of what you see to be a shooting disparity. But stick to your narrative if you would like. The truth is black peoples aren’t being gunned down by racist cops.
What high profile shootings involved violent crime (by the citizen)?
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What high profile shootings involved violent crime (by the citizen)?
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Do you consider assaulting police officers, and having weapons to be violent? If so, then pretty much all of the 2019 police shootings. Blake would fit the category. Some of the arrests may have started from now violent crimes like Rayshard Brooks but they moment you start fighting officers that is a violent crime.
They didn't marshall huge sums of money, they just used your future money to pay other people and add it to the debt you as a taxpayer will have to pay back. They did not cut one government service and restrict spending. They can "defund" or "reallocate" all the funds they need but people should not be surprised when a social worker is attacked the first night they go out to a domestic dispute.
Of course, but governments operate on borrowed money all the time. Covid just stands as the most prominent example of just how much money the government can marshal in this way if it wants to. My point is that governments can fund social spending without reallocation funds from other sources (at least in the near term). And even if they couldn't, it seems they should be looking at all government spending to determine the source of the funds - not just police. That is, if the main goal is to fund social programs, not defund police departments.
As for the danger to social workers, that is already a reality they deal with daily, and there are special programs where they, or nurses, pair up with police to respond to certain calls. The latter strikes me as particularly valuable.
If investing money in social programs works, there won't be the need to have the same police presence. It is also about demilitarizing the police.
I agree with you, in part.
Ideally, social programs reduce crime, which reduces the need for boots on the ground policing. In theory, this means you could reduce police funding as the benefits of the social programs take effect. But we're talking about a result that is years away, so to make the argument that social programs need better funding now by focusing on defunding police years from now is putting the cart before the horse.
Also, I would argue that patrol or general duty policing is just one aspect of what police do. If the need for that is reduced, there are lots of other policing needs that need funding. So one would still have too look at all areas of government spending and decide how to prioritize.
Edit: On the demilitarization side, this is where I think the Canadian and US experiences really diverge. The wide availability of high powered arms in the US means police must be more powerfully equipped if they're going to respond effectively to mass shootings, terrorist incidents, etc. That does not mean those bits of equipment should be deployed routinely, but they likely do need to be available to police in the US to a degree that is not necessary in Canada.
But I would agree that increasingly combative policing stance inevitably creates more of an us-and-them mentality, and a greater likelihood of violent encounters between police and citizens.
Last edited by flylock shox; 08-30-2020 at 09:35 AM.
Do you consider assaulting police officers, and having weapons to be violent? If so, then pretty much all of the 2019 police shootings. Blake would fit the category. Some of the arrests may have started from now violent crimes like Rayshard Brooks but they moment you start fighting officers that is a violent crime.
Holy ####. You do not understand.
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Read the entire thread, and don’t be dismissive. This is a serious societal issue, which needs to be addressed.
I’m dismissive? I have read the thread. I added stats. I added my interpretation of the stats. If you disagree with my interpretation tell me why. This is how it’s supposed to work. We have conversations about serious societal issues and hopefully people are edified and come to a conclusion that will help ease the issue. We do not get to scream and yell loudly when someone disagrees with us, call them names and remove their voice from society. I don’t think it’s smart to base our ideology on things that aren’t true. Police are not killing black people disproportionately. Police have shot innocent people of all colours. Police do need better training. They shouldn’t have some of the immunity that they do. We shouldn’t have no knock warrants regularly occurring. I am not an unreasonable person that supports police 100% of the time. I just see people making statements that aren’t founding in factual stats and I added my opinion. If I’m wrong tell me why and I’ll thank you.
I’m dismissive? I have read the thread. I added stats. I added my interpretation of the stats. If you disagree with my interpretation tell me why. This is how it’s supposed to work. We have conversations about serious societal issues and hopefully people are edified and come to a conclusion that will help ease the issue. We do not get to scream and yell loudly when someone disagrees with us, call them names and remove their voice from society. I don’t think it’s smart to base our ideology on things that aren’t true. Police are not killing black people disproportionately. Police have shot innocent people of all colours. Police do need better training. They shouldn’t have some of the immunity that they do. We shouldn’t have no knock warrants regularly occurring. I am not an unreasonable person that supports police 100% of the time. I just see people making statements that aren’t founding in factual stats and I added my opinion. If I’m wrong tell me why and I’ll thank you.
Calling someone “bud” is quite dismissive.
Suggesting black people being arrested is because they’re generally violent is wrong and racist.
Suggesting if they just didn’t resist it would all be ok is simply wrong and also racist.
Black people are pre-judged as being deserving of being pulled over, arrested, OR SHOT WHILE BEING ARRESTED, simply due to the colour of their skin. That is racist and wrong.
Black people are being killed by police disproportionately.
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