2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I disagree with most of this post.

Buffalo absolutely will have interest in probably every top player that is available this offseason. I read an article where their best reporter suggests at least 50% chance they trade that pick.

New Jersey would love to add an elite player to either Hughes or Hischier’s line. They have 3 1st round picks and a ton of cap space and want to move forward not continue a long rebuild.

Why are you adding a 2nd to Johnny for both the Colorado and Washington deals? Neither get me overly excited with Johnny by himself let alone the Flames trading away their 2nd for the 4th straight year.

Frost and Konecny is a dream trade that I can’t see the Flyers making. I do think in a one for one trade for Konecny the Flames would lose as it would be a classic sell low for the Flames and a sell high for the Flyers so I would like there to be a plus from Philly. I can see the Flyers shutting that down right away so that’s a reason I don’t see them as a good trade partner.


I am pretty firm in my belief that if Johnny is traded it will be for a futures based package that opens up cap space for Calgary to sign Hall while adding some key pieces that are 1-2 years away from making a significant impact on the club.

I agree. I think the best scenario for the Flames would be to trade Johnny for futures provided they have a deal in place for Hall. Hall replacing Gaudreau is basically a wash in terms of player quality, and then we restock the cupboards. Win/win.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I agree. I think the best scenario for the Flames would be to trade Johnny for futures provided they have a deal in place for Hall. Hall replacing Gaudreau is basically a wash in terms of player quality, and then we restock the cupboards. Win/win.

While I don’t think a team can typically fix their issues with free agency this could be a rare year it works for Calgary. In addition to Hall they may be in a spot where they can sign Lehner or Markstrom and add a legit number 1.

In order to pay for these players they need to shed cap. I don’t know how many legit superstar wingers with term and a sub $7M salary will be available this summer but thanks to the cap crunch I think Treliving can get a great return for Johnny while shedding at least $3M of cap space.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I agree. I think the best scenario for the Flames would be to trade Johnny for futures provided they have a deal in place for Hall. Hall replacing Gaudreau is basically a wash in terms of player quality, and then we restock the cupboards. Win/win.

Taylor Hall is not as good as Johnny Gaudreau. In no way is that a wash.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Neither is likely interested in trading for Gaudreau in their current state, at least not in exchange for their picks. He's much more likely to be traded to a contender with a bit of cap room looking for an upgrade on 1LW, a team in "win now" mode that thinks he can put them over the top, even if it is at the expense of a promising prospect. So which contenders have a highly-rated centre prospect?

Probably the dream trade for the Flames would be with their 2020 2nd to Washington (which doesn't have its own 2nd this year) for Connor McMichael and Tom Wilson.

Why would the Flames do this? Well, for a middling team with no likely 1C or 2C in the pipeline, this would give them a potential top 6 centre, as well as a decent right-shot top 6 RW who's signed up until the Flames' next likely window to contend (around 2022-2023, at the prime of Tkachuk, Valimaki, Andersson, Pelletier, Hanifin, and Kylington's careers, with maybe Wolf or Parsons taking over in net). The top 9 would look something like Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm, Pelletier-McMichael-Wilson, and Dube-Backlund-Mangiapane.

Why would the Caps to this? Their window to win is now. Ovechkin is nearing the end of his contract, and his production is declining a bit. With his seeing-eye pinpoint passes, Gaudreau would be the best set-up man Ovy has ever had. With Gaudreau, a left-hand shot, playing RW and setting up Ovechkin's deadly right-hand shot on the LW, it wouldn't surprise me if Ovy got 60-70 goals and Gaudreau got 120 points. Sign Ovy for one more season, and you have two seasons as possibly the team with the best chance to win the Cup. Their top 6 would be Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Gaudreau and Vrana-Backstrom-Oshie (scary!). They may give up more than they get back in trading McMichael at the beginning of his career, but if they win two Stanley Cups in the process, it will have been worth it (think back to the Niewendyk for Iginla trade). And they may have an above-average shot at re-signing Gaudreau.

With Wilson's cap hit being a bit less than Gaudreau's, the Flames could eat 25% of Gaudreau's salary to balance the cap. And how fun would it be to watch a Connor McMichael/Connor McDavid rivalry in the BOA?

One other intriguing possibility would be to again bundle Gaudreau with a 2nd to Colorado for Burakovsky and Alex Newhook. For the Flames, this would give them a top 6 LW to take 2nd line duties (RFA for UFA, but not at quite the same skill level, especially given that Burakovsky has put up fewer points in spite of playing with MacKinnon, and RFA trade and sign deals seem to be Treliving's forte) and a 1C/2C prospect. Not to mention that it would add to Calgary's own local Team Sweden. Top 6 would be Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm and Burakovsky-Newhook-Pelletier. For the Avs, this would give them an elite playmaker who would likely be even better than he is on the Flames given how much space Mackinnon's speed would create for him to work in. I can see Gaudreau easily putting up 120+ points on a line with MacKinnon and Rantanen, and boosting both of his linemates' goal totals significantly, to the point that the line would be virtually unstoppable for the next two years. I see this scenario as less likely because the Avs are more in a "win-anytime" mode, and Gaudreau may be less likely to re-sign there, but it may be hard to turn down the prospect of two years of being the Stanley Cup favourites.

Of course, Johnny's dream trade would be to the Flyers, probably for Morgan Frost. In this scenario, the Flyers would have to add. Maybe Konecky to balance the cap hit? From the Flyers' perspective, they would likely be highly confident that they could re-sign Gaudreau for a reasonable cap hit, and they are in "win-now" territory.

Quite a bit to digest here, but don’t see much here that seems plausible.

If I’m Treliving and I’m looking to target a top 6 C, I’m going straight to the Buffalo Sabres to see if there’s a way to get Dylan Cozens. I think there are several reasons why it works for both teams.

Buffalo: the owners, the players (Eichel), the fans, have grown impatient. The time to start making the playoffs is now. Do you think Jack Eichel signs an 8 year deal thing the Sabres are still going to be a lottery team 3 years in? I don’t. With a new GM at the helm, they’re not desperate but the message is going to be clear, improvement is non negotiable. Kim Pegula said so herself that they are not ‘rebuilding’.

Flames: perhaps Morgan Frost is another option, but acquiring a young C with top 6 potential is nearly impossible. You’re going to have to pay a premium, especially if the return is a winger, but you might be able to do it through the right trade partner. Cozens would be preferable to the 8OA pick because he’s already had his draft +1 year and you know (as best you can) what you’re getting. Who knows what you’re getting with the 8th OA? And how long until the pick plays for you, if the pick plays? Is that what the Flames want right now? Picks? I don’t think so. Or at least it’s not their priority.

I’ve been saying all along; JG for Cozens and Miller/Montour.

I don’t see Washington as a fit at all. They won a cup with Wilson as a core piece. Why would they want to change that and in such a drastic fashion? JG for Tom Wilson? Are there two players in the league that are more opposite of one another? Disrupting the core this much would seem to fly in the face of Washington’s ‘win now’ position as you have laid it out. Also, Backstrom is every bit as good as JG as a set up man. Connor McMicheal looks to be a good target though.

Reasonably sure the Flyers have no interest in trading Konecny.

[Roof-Daddy]

Flyers are a tough one, they have a good thing going, they're pretty stacked on LW and they'd need to send salary back, and I don't think anyone here wants JVR as part of the return for Gaudreau. As much as you want to believe Konecny is in reach, I really don't see it, and then there is Frost. To me he'd be the perfect piece because:

1. He's got top 6 C upside
2. He's pretty much NHL ready
3. He's expansion draft exempt

...but with Nolan Patrick's future in limbo Frost is pretty important for the Flyers future down the middle.

To me New Jersey makes a lot of sense, as long as they are confident they can re-sign him. They've already drafted their Cs of the future, have multiple 1st round picks and they clearly need help on the wings, especially left wing. They also have a lot of cap space and future cap flexibility.

Buffalo has two pieces that as a Flames fan you'd love to get your hands on, Cozens and the 8th overall, but the Sabres already have Skinner and Olofsson on LW. Their biggest needs on forward match our biggest needs on forward, so even though Gaudreau would be their best LW, I imagine they'd rather move those pieces to add a good 2C or top 6 RW.

Carolina is another team that I could see wanting Gaudreau if they think they can extend him, but they'd also want to send salary back, and the most attractive piece for the Flames (Martin Necas) is probably teetering on complete unavailability much like Konecny in Philly. They do have some nice prospects though, like Bean, Suzuki and Bokk.

And as always, the Rangers are the type of team that is always in the mix for star players, but they already have about $18 million AAV committed long term to their top 2 LWs in Panarin and Kreider. Unless they shift one of them to RW trading for Gaudreau makes no sense. They have a lot of attractive pieces though.

[JJolg]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Taylor Hall is not as good as Johnny Gaudreau. In no way is that a wash.

Unless something changes this year id rather Hall over Johnny 10/10 going into playoffs. You cant have your best player giving up the puck because he's afraid to get hit. Other teams feast on that and his own teammates see that also.

[SeanCharles]

This thread is stuck in a time loop.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

This thread is stuck in a time loop.

Haha yep. I guess that's what happens when the season gets paused for 5 months but the usual off season transactions and player movement can't happen as they usually do.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Most Dmen when they are 23 don't already have nearly 400 games of NHL experience under their belt. I know some believe Hanifin has a lot of ceiling left to reach, I'm not so sure. I think he's pretty much what he is at this point.

And don't get me wrong, what he is, is a solid top 4 Dman who can skate well and log minutes, and he has a good contract for what he brings. He's not small or weak either.

I would entertain trading him though if they can get a decent top 6 C in return, especially if they can re-sign Forbort to fill the gap while they bring along Valimaki, Kylington and Mackey on the left side.

If the Flames decide to retool this mess, that's another situation where they should try to deal Hanifin for a high end futures package if it can be had.

Saying a defenseman 'is what he is' at 23, is just wrong - no matter who we are talking about, or how many NHL games they have played.

One of the weirdest takes on this board is that NHL experience is somehow more restrictive or more definitive than other experience. Just because his formative years have been in the NHL doesn't mean that he can't continue to improve (like pretty much ALL defensemen do)

Just a bizarre, bizarre take to me.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Saying a defenseman 'is what he is' at 23, is just wrong - no matter who we are talking about, or how many NHL games they have played.

One of the weirdest takes on this board is that NHL experience is somehow more restrictive or more definitive than other experience. Just because his formative years have been in the NHL doesn't mean that he can't continue to improve (like pretty much ALL defensemen do)

Just a bizarre, bizarre take to me.

It's not bizarre at all. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to make extreme improvements, but it seems unlikely at this point.

I'd love to hear some examples of 23 year old Dmen with 5 full NHL seasons under their belt making dramatic improvements past that. I can't think of any myself off the top of my head.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's not bizarre at all. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to make extreme improvements, but it seems unlikely at this point.

I'd love to hear some examples of 23 year old Dmen with 5 full NHL seasons under their belt making dramatic improvements past that. I can't think of any myself off the top of my head.

Can we start with the list of 23 yo D-men with 5 full seasons? It's probably not a very long list...

I suspect many of them continued to evolve/refine their games with age...

[Monahammer]

Hanafin for Nils Lundqvist and Georgiev would be a great trade for us IMO.

then Gaudreau for Reinhart+ Cozens

Sign Hall

Hall-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Cozens-Reinhart
Mangiapane-Backlund-Bennett
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Gio-Andersson
Forbort-Lundqvist
Valimaki-Yelesin

Georgiev
Rittich

[ricardodw]

What would the Flames offer for Hellebuyck or Vasilevskiy?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's not bizarre at all. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to make extreme improvements, but it seems unlikely at this point.

I'd love to hear some examples of 23 year old Dmen with 5 full NHL seasons under their belt making dramatic improvements past that. I can't think of any myself off the top of my head.

There are lots of examples. MOST defensemen get better after 23.

One example that came immediately to mind of getting better after 5 terrible NHL seasons (though they came after college, not after junior) is Justin Schultz.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There are lots of examples. MOST defensemen get better after 23.

One example that came immediately to mind of getting better after 5 terrible NHL seasons (though they came after college, not after junior) is Justin Schultz.

Well I never said he "wouldn't get better", I just said he pretty much is what he is, a top 4 Dman who has size and can skate and has a good contract for what he brings. I think many here believe he's going to explode offensively or turn into a legit top pairing 25 minute per night Dman, which at this point I highly doubt.

I'd be happy to be wrong though.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by JJolg

Unless something changes this year id rather Hall over Johnny 10/10 going into playoffs. You cant have your best player giving up the puck because he's afraid to get hit. Other teams feast on that and his own teammates see that also.

Taylor can't even get to the playoffs unless there is a pandemic and they let everyone in.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Taylor Hall is not as good as Johnny Gaudreau. In no way is that a wash.

What are you basing that opinion on?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by VilleN

What are you basing that opinion on?

Career numbers? Ability to stay healthy? On ice vision and hockey IQ? Are you really saying you would prefer Taylor Hall to Johnny Gaudreau? I would bet 31 GM's would disagree with you.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Career numbers? Ability to stay healthy? On ice vision and hockey IQ? Are you really saying you would prefer Taylor Hall to Johnny Gaudreau? I would bet 31 GM's would disagree with you.

Not necessarily. Health is an issue for sure, but overall their career numbers don't differ a whole lot. I think an argument could be made either way, Johnny's size is a detriment as we've seen in the playoffs, Taylor Hall is likely more suited to playoff hockey but that is admittedly an assumption. I would bet 31 GMs would agree with me! So Ha!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by VilleN

What are you basing that opinion on?

Nearly every offensive statistic over the last five years.

Hall has better numbers/60 on the powerplay. That's it.

Gaudreau is the better player. Hall will be a slight downgrade.