[PGT] Flames squander another crucial one. 5-3 VGK

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And things we've been seeing under multiple coaches

This is a major red herring and you know it.

[Teroy]

This team does not have a leader that gives an all out effort and calls out the others who don't. I'm not talking about a Captain, I'm talking about a leader. We need a player or coach who shouts out "get your a** in gear.

[EN FUEGO]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Rittich is doing his job - just really bad bounces due to bad defensive play in front of him. Also, Rittich's getting the harder teams to play against whereas Talbot plays the weaker teams. So, in my opinion, Talbot's a bit on the sheltered side. Plus, I think your wife might have the hots for Talbot since he's got a prettier face I think the Flames have a pretty good goalie tandem. Just the team sucks in the first period and the last couple of minutes on most nights. You can't really fault the goalies on most nights. This team is below mediocre on home ice.

Hahaha, she claims it's cause Rittich is "a crybaby", but you may be on to something there.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

This is a major red herring and you know it.

I'm sorry you'll have to expand.
How are consistent issues with the players, under several different coaches, a "red herring"?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'm a newbie posting on this site but some of the posters here sure seem fragile. I am already avoiding game threads as I can't believe some of the people in there are even enjoying watching hockey.

Down one goal in the first:
SELL THE TEAM
FIRE THE COACH
TRADE EVERYONE

Why watch something that makes you that mad?

Part of the reason a lot of posters avoid the game thread, unfortunately.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm sorry you'll have to expand.
How are consistent issues with the players, under several different coaches, a "red herring"?

Let's not use those words.

Those "several different coaches" you refer to coaching this same Flames core are really just Glen Gulutzan and now Geoff Ward, two coaches cut from the same cloth of coaching archetype that have eerily similar deficiencies regarding in particular player deployment, systems deployment, in-game management and home ice woes.

I'd say that takes a lot of the wind out of your argument's sails.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Let's not use those words.

Those "several different coaches" you refer to coaching this same Flames core are really just Glen Gulutzan and now Geoff Ward, two coaches cut from the same cloth of coaching archetype that have eerily similar deficiencies regarding in particular player deployment, systems deployment, in-game management and home ice woes.

I'd say that takes a lot of the wind out of your argument's sails.

You are welcome to your opinion on it.
I've long held the view that this is more about the players on the roster, and specifically key players who aren't committing to doing what is required, on a consistent basis, to win.

[Roof-Daddy]

Can't win em all, but it sucks they came all the way back only to lose with just a minute or so left and get 0 points.

Just win the next one, have to avoid losing streaks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Let's not use those words.

Those "several different coaches" you refer to coaching this same Flames core are really just Glen Gulutzan and now Geoff Ward, two coaches cut from the same cloth of coaching archetype that have eerily similar deficiencies regarding in particular player deployment, systems deployment, in-game management and home ice woes.

I'd say that takes a lot of the wind out of your argument's sails.

Except the Flames were playing worse under Peters this year. And I don’t think Ward and GG are similar in deployment or systems at all. Ward is much more similar to Peters (which makes sense of course). I think Ward and GG may have similar trouble in motivating players to play their system. So did Peters (and Hartley after the big season) but perhaps for different reasons.

[Toonage]

Look at it this way

The Flames could not win under Geoff Ward/Bill Peters/Glen Gulutzan/Bob Hartley

looks a lot different than if we were saying

The Flames could not win under Peter Laviolette/Alain Vigneault/Gerard Gallant

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Let's not use those words.

Those "several different coaches" you refer to coaching this same Flames core are really just Glen Gulutzan and now Geoff Ward, two coaches cut from the same cloth of coaching archetype that have eerily similar deficiencies regarding in particular player deployment, systems deployment, in-game management and home ice woes.

I'd say that takes a lot of the wind out of your argument's sails.

Why are you leaving Bill Peters out of this?

[Erick Estrada]

I'm in the camp that believes the roster needs changes but the head coaching hires have not been good enough. Arguably the worst organization in the league when it comes to identifying and hiring head coaches. Jim Playfair, Mike Keenan, Brent Sutter, Bob Hartley, Glen Gulutzan, Bill Peters, soon to be joined by Geoff Ward. That's not just a list of the last 7 Flames head coaches, that's a list of head coaches that never got work as an NHL head coach again after coaching the Flames. What's even worse is that I don't think any of them even got interviews for head coaching jobs after. This organization really needs to hire really good head coach if it's going to get out of this endless cycle of mediocrity.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm in the camp that believes the roster needs changes but the head coaching hires have not been good enough. Arguably the worst organization in the league when it comes to identifying and hiring head coaches. Jim Playfair, Mike Keenan, Brent Sutter, Bob Hartley, Glen Gulutzan, Bill Peters, soon to be joined by Geoff Ward. That's not just a list of the last 8 Flames head coaches, that's a list of head coaches that never got work as an NHL head coach again after coaching the Flames. What's even worse is that I don't think any of them even got interviews for head coaching jobs after. This organization really needs to hire really good head coach if it's going to get out of this endless cycle of mediocrity.

I don't disagree with this. I'm firmly in the "both" camp.
I think this group is running out of chances, but I'm also of the mind that hiring a top end coach, with a more proven track record, at least eliminates that variable.
Assuming someone like that would be willing to come here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm in the camp that believes the roster needs changes but the head coaching hires have not been good enough. Arguably the worst organization in the league when it comes to identifying and hiring head coaches. Jim Playfair, Mike Keenan, Brent Sutter, Bob Hartley, Glen Gulutzan, Bill Peters, soon to be joined by Geoff Ward. That's not just a list of the last 8 Flames head coaches, that's a list of head coaches that never got work as an NHL head coach again after coaching the Flames. What's even worse is that I don't think any of them even got interviews for head coaching jobs after. This organization really needs to hire really good head coach if it's going to get out of this endless cycle of mediocrity.

One of the factors with a big name coach is that players may not assume they are bigger than the coach in a power struggle.

I think this whole coaching thing right now is a strange debate. When Peters was fired, no one was really available and then Ward went on a nice run. It doesn’t look like Laviolette or Gallant are that interested in any team, at least not until the offseason. Boudreau is maybe interested but there’s so few games left now. Ward has been holding down the Fort fairly well, if won-loss records are any indication. I see nothing to indicate he’s some sort of shoo-in for the job next year. I’m sure he will get an interview out of courtesy at the very least.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You are welcome to your opinion on it.
I've long held the view that this is more about the players on the roster, and specifically key players who aren't committing to doing what is required, on a consistent basis, to win.

But Jiri, we have seen this issue with an entirely different group of players at the end of the Iginla era. Gio is about the only link.

And the one consistency is that no coach of the Calgary Flames has gone on to any kind of success (even any kind of NHL head coaching job) since Darryl Sutter. We are now talking about 14 years. The two previous GM's (three is you count Burke) will never be GM's again either.

How can that not possibly be telling?

It will take years to turnover this entire roster. Trading Gaudreau doesn't turn this team into a championship contender.

I absolutely agree with any fan who is looking hard at organizational leadership, especially the coach and GM.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Her call on the game winning goal was “is it in? Is it in? It looked in” and it was awkward.

Imagine Randorf did that. He would be getting shredded.

The red light did not go on, and the ref did not point as a goal right away, either, and when he finally did, it was not very emphatic.

So while her call was awkward, the usual notifiers such as the red light not being on lead to the awkwardness, and she was actually correct in stating it went in, despite this.

[united]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Last year after 70 (66gp) games, Backlund had 43 points, .65 pts pg
This year after 70 games, Backlund has 45 points, .64 pts pg

Last year after 70 games, Monahan had 76 points, 1.09 pts pg
This year after 70 games, Monahan has 48 points, .69 pts pg

Kind of depressing when considering their respective roles/usage at even-strength, and opportunity as it relates to the powerplay. Tied in even-strength points this season, believe it or not. Not good.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

But Jiri, we have seen this issue with an entirely different group of players at the end of the Iginla era. Gio is about the only link.

And the one consistency is that no coach of the Calgary Flames has gone on to any kind of success (even any kind of NHL head coaching job) since Darryl Sutter. We are now talking about 14 years. The two previous GM's (three is you count Burke) will never be GM's again either.

How can that not possibly be telling?

It will take years to turnover this entire roster. Trading Gaudreau doesn't turn this team into a championship contender.

I absolutely agree with any fan who is looking hard at organizational leadership, especially the coach and GM.

The end of the Iginla era had different issues including just a lack of talent.

Though there was also a deeper issue with the teams captain and best player undermining how the team wanted to play - creating a rift in the dressing room.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You are welcome to your opinion on it.
I've long held the view that this is more about the players on the roster, and specifically key players who aren't committing to doing what is required, on a consistent basis, to win.

You could be right in fact I'm sure there is some truth to this. But we will never know what this core is truly capable of by constantly going with throw away coaches.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The end of the Iginla era had different issues including just a lack of talent.

Though there was also a deeper issue with the teams captain and best player undermining how the team wanted to play - creating a rift in the dressing room.

I actually think both accurate descriptors of this team as well.

Not enough talent, rift in the room with the team's best player.