[PGT] Flames 1 Sharks 3. Flames display "Troy Brouwer vibes"

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

It’s a business. If anything it should of lit a fire under his ass. If you heard your company was going to lay you off and then they didn’t, would you mail it in afterwards? or would you bust your ass so it didn’t come close again.

I dunno actually.

I don't know how my 25 year old self, in my first real job, would handle that.

[NewFan]

I think Flames needs 1 real top 6 guy who can shoot puck. I was hoping Jankowski, Bennett or Mangi become that guy but looks like they won't. I'd trade Janko, Frolik, Harmonic and this year's 1st to get that guy. Who we can get for that price?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I think Flames needs 1 real top 6 guy who can shoot puck. I was hoping Jankowski, Bennett or Mangi become that guy but looks like they won't. I'd trade Janko, Frolik, Harmonic and this year's 1st to get that guy. Who we can get for that price?

I don’t think any team is moving those types of players before Christmas.


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[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The reason why the Flames are not fielding calls for their bottom five or six forwards is not because these players are so poor compared to their counterparts on other teams; it’s because every team in the NHL has an abundance of these same types of players.If Treliving is presently hitting the phones and looking to add players, do you know which players he is not interested in acquiring? OTHER TEAMS’S BOTTOM SIX PLAYERS.

So, no. Maybe “panic” is the wrong word to describe how your posts read. I would say instead that they look more to me like pessimistic exaggerations based on the team’s current performance. The difference between you and me is probably that I think most of the Flames forwards have a lot more to give. You seem to think that they have hit their limit.


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Wait.... isn’t this my point?


Our bottom 6 is nothing special has been my point the entire time. No other team would swap their bottom 6 for ours regardless of salaries OR their performances this year. Maybe my exaggeration was calling them tweeners. That I can concede was getting carried away (though some definitely are).

In defending my initial stance maybe I’ve strayed away from it a bit in terms of what I’m defending. But at the start of the year a big chunk of CP claimed we have deepest team in years and other teams would love to have our depth: I don’t think that was ever a thing and if it was at the least you could give me that they definitely aren’t right now LOL


Edit- AND I disagree that Treliving shouldn’t be looking at other teams bottom 6 guys. A lot of fans get caught up in the need for fancy names and thinking that adding ANOTHER big scorer (although we do need a #2 RW as well don’t get me wrong there) is just what the team needs. Unfortunately hockey doesn’t work that way you usually have 2 lines of scoring 2 lines of defending and causing a mess who hopefully also contribute.

I could argue we need more role players who bang it out and cause a headache for the team. There is such a thing as being an elite bottom 6 player. I’m thinking of guys like Cizikas (sp?) for the Islanders or a kind of career Byron has made for himself in Montreal. Brad should be calling teams about upgrading specifically our bottom 6 just as much as he should be trying to find a way to magically make a 2nd line right winger appear. Although I think we both know which task is more likely to get done this season....

[Vinny01]

Missed this game last night traveling back from Vegas. Thought I recorded it but based on this thread I am glad I didn’t.

Getting a little nervous we are entering yet another year in the cycle of one good year, one bad year.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Wait.... isn’t this my point?

Your point was to note that the Flames's bottom six is merely average? If that is so, then this is an odd way to communicate it:

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

...almost every guy has zero or negative trade value and would have difficulty cracking any other NHL line up that isn’t the Oilers.

Being "average" is a good deal better than having difficulty cracking every other NHL team.

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Our bottom 6 is nothing special has been my point the entire time. No other team would swap their bottom 6 for ours regardless of salaries OR their performances this year. Maybe my exaggeration was calling them tweeners. That I can concede was getting carried away (though some definitely are)...

No. Your exaggeration is precisely what I countered in my response to your initial post...

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Us being a deep team is a CP myth. After Monahan, Lindholm, Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Backlund almost every guy has zero or negative trade value and would have difficulty cracking any other NHL line up that isn’t the Oilers.

1. The Flames are a deep team from top-to-bottom. This is not a "CP myth."
2. Suggesting that every forward outside of the top five has "zero or negative trade value" is simply not true.
3. The Flames bottom six players are not so bad that they would be scratched by every other NHL team.

These are all massive exaggerations.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I think Flames needs 1 real top 6 guy who can shoot puck. I was hoping Jankowski, Bennett or Mangi become that guy but looks like they won't. I'd trade Janko, Frolik, Harmonic and this year's 1st to get that guy. Who we can get for that price?

I really do like Mangiapane on the 2nd line, he just doesn't have any finish yet

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Missed this game last night traveling back from Vegas. Thought I recorded it but based on this thread I am glad I didn’t.

Getting a little nervous we are entering yet another year in the cycle of one good year, one bad year.

lol

6 games.

4 of them on the road. All against playoff teams: COL, DAL, VGS, SJS. They lost 3 of those games, which is not a surprise at all.

They are 1-0-1 at home.

Might as well trade everyone and start over.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I really do like Mangiapane on the 2nd line, he just doesn't have any finish yet

Agreed. But I also don't think his shot is his forté. If the solution is to have a great shooter on that line, Mangiapane isn't it.

I still like the long-term potential there.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Your point was to note that the Flames's bottom six is merely average? If that is so, then this is an odd way to communicate it:

Being "average" is a good deal better than having difficulty cracking every other NHL team.


No. Your exaggeration is precisely what I countered in my response to your initial post...

1. The Flames are a deep team from top-to-bottom. This is not a "CP myth."
2. Suggesting that every forward outside of the top five has "zero or negative trade value" is simply not true.
3. The Flames bottom six players are not so bad that they would be scratched by every other NHL team.

These are all massive exaggerations.

You seem to get stuck on semantics. If you threw Jankowski on say the Avalanche. Where do you see him slotting in? How bout on the Islanders? To say that a large chunk of our bottom 6 would have difficulty cracking other rosters is not a stretch. Ecspecially because as you pointed out they already have an abundance of their own. I don’t see anyone on our bottom 6 that is likely to go steal jobs away. And anyone that could is over paid for the role they’d play so the team wouldn’t want them (Ryan, Jankowski, Lucic, Bennett). Please point out one player on our bottom 6 to me then that would have any trade value at the moment. I’d like to know what you think the demand would be for anyone there since you seem to feel we’re so deep. And contrary to your belief that teams look to fill their bottom six somehow with other teams top 6 that just isn’t true. Depth has value. And guys who fit bottom 6 roles are sought after.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

lol

6 games.

4 of them on the road. All against playoff teams: COL, DAL, VGS, SJS. They lost 3 of those games, which is not a surprise at all.

They are 1-0-1 at home.

Might as well trade everyone and start over.

If losing 75% of games to playoff teams is now an expected result, then you are on to something.

[jonkaupp]

How anyone can say the Flames are deep top to bottom when we have three players in our top 13 forwards who are hovering around, if not below, replacement level is beyond me. Lucic, Jankowski and Reider are all players that would have trouble cracking most lineups in the NHL. Frolik is regressing rapidly and Bennett is one of the most consistently disappointing players in the league. We are not a deep team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

lol

6 games.

4 of them on the road. All against playoff teams: COL, DAL, VGS, SJS. They lost 3 of those games, which is not a surprise at all.

They are 1-0-1 at home.

Might as well trade everyone and start over.

Nice reply to “getting a little nervous”. It gives you the ability to get on your soap box and say all is well but talk about overreaction to an observation on how the season has gone to date.

[Shazam]

All isn't well, but it's not horrible.

Man people are really upset that Edmonton's started the way they have.

[VladtheImpaler]

This is what I would do to try to generate some balance and improve the C position. I think most of you will think I am nuts, but IMO it is worth a try:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lucic
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane/Bennett
Bennett/Mangiapane-Backlund-Frolik/Ryan
Whoever is not playing on 2nd/3rd line plus Czarnik/Jankowski

I think the 1st line is not fast and Lucic can keep up there better than anywhere else and adds the useful element of board-work and protecting Johny. I think this gives us 3 solid lines with lines 2 and 3 being good enough defensively to hold their own. Anyhow, just a thought about changing things, without bringing in outside help...

[Love]

Retool year. Draft Byfield. Sign Hall.

Let Brodie, Janko, Fro etc go for cap.
Nuke Lucic
Promote Vali / Kyl full time

2021 champs

[TheScorpion]

I think we're being awfully quick to jump to conclusions. After years of watching slow start after slow start, it doesn't make sense to make proclamations about "retool years" or "blowing it up" until November, at least. Guys are still getting into the groove of the season.

Many (myself included) rushed to judge players like Smith and Ryan last year. They both helped the Flames win 50. There's a lot of hockey left to play and a lot of room for the Flames to grow

[bubbsy]

I think the lack lustre start has lots of flames fans on edge.

No changes to the meat of the roster.
Lucic trade only big move, highly debated
Flames end to last season and playoffs leaves the quality of the core in question.

Then season starts with oilers doing well, neal leading the league in goals, doesn't help.

I am worried about the flames. Played some stiff competition, sure, but they only have 1 regulation win and it was against the frigin nucks. Good teams should be able to beat other good teams.

It's early, i expect them to keep improving. But nothing wrong with being disappointed in the start.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think we're being awfully quick to jump to conclusions. After years of watching slow start after slow start, it doesn't make sense to make proclamations about "retool years" or "blowing it up" until November, at least. Guys are still getting into the groove of the season.

Many (myself included) rushed to judge players like Smith and Ryan last year. They both helped the Flames win 50. There's a lot of hockey left to play and a lot of room for the Flames to grow

Smith was awful for the majority of the season last year.

[Samonadreau]

Ya, Smith was sub .900 last season.