Off Season Trade rumours thread - Brodie, Frolik, Stone etc. Only

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Brouwer and Neal really aren't very comparable... Brouwer was an absolute sinkole on EVERYBODY while Neal actually made some players better, notably Tkachuk who actually improved defensively while playing with Neal while sacrificing only a little offense. I'd like to see those two paired up more next year, going back to Vegas Neal is very much a player who needs better linemates (Perron, Haula) to succeed and this is reflected in his WoWY analytics

I'd assume that Neal has the second line spot locked down to start the year given his veteran status and his history of being a producer, despite last season.

Tkachuk, Backlund and Neal actually sounds like it'd be a good line, so we'll see if Neal can find his game with them. Pretty much everyone that's been tried up with Backlund has benefitted.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

And a collective sigh of relief rang throughout southern Alberta.

Must be some intensely huge fans in Lethbridge, because it's REALLY windy today!

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I'd assume that Neal has the second line spot locked down to start the year given his veteran status and his history of being a producer, despite last season.

Tkachuk, Backlund and Neal actually sounds like it'd be a good line, so we'll see if Neal can find his game with them. Pretty much everyone that's been tried up with Backlund has benefitted.

If Janko’s or Ryan’s line can handle the tough competition, or if we sacrifice production from the top line for tougher matchups. There’s no way Neal should face the same level of competition that Backlund’s line is used to.

There’s all this talk about getting a defensively responsible center to add to the depth. I think that’s why the conversion of Lindholm from winger back to center is intriguing. Allows Backlund’s line to take more of an offensive role, liberates Neal somewhat, and while it would almost definitely be a downgrade, many wingers can survive with Johnny and Monahan. Trying Bennett and Tkachuk on their off wings comes to mind.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Im thinking Neal gets 20 goals and at least 40 pts next year.

I will eat a pube laced order of poutine if he doesn't!!

Ok, but I'm pretty sure that's a delicacy in some areas of Quebec.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lol how do you figure?

The Smid trade was a no win for either team. Brossoit has only started to look decent when he left the Oilers for nothing. Smid was a Dman during the rebuild and suffered injuries.

In fact I call that trade a win due to how heartbroken the Oilers fans were when the trade broke.

As for the Staios trade how was that a loss? My only real memory of Staios was when he scored the tying goal late in a game in Edmonton in 2011 when the Oilers coughed up a 4-1 lead in the last 15 minutes of the game (I was in the building and it was an extremely memorable game for me)

Flames lost both trades on wasted cap space alone. In today’s dollars they were paying Staios over 3.7 million a year and for Smid it was the equivalent of over 4.4 million a year. Poor use of cap space to give up assets for boat anchor contracts like those.

Staios would be like the Flames finding a team to give them a 3rd rounder and a tweeter prospect for Stone. It would be pretty hard for BT to find a GM dumb enough to give him that value for Stone.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames lost both trades on wasted cap space alone. In today’s dollars they were paying Staios over 3.7 million a year and for Smid it was the equivalent of over 4.4 million a year. Poor use of cap space to give up assets for boat anchor contracts like those.

Staios would be like the Flames finding a team to give them a 3rd rounder and a tweeter prospect for Stone. It would be pretty hard for BT to find a GM dumb enough to give him that value for Stone.

Did they have zero cap room afterwards? Were they prevented from doing a deal? If not, irrelevant.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I'd assume that Neal has the second line spot locked down to start the year given his veteran status and his history of being a producer, despite last season.

Tkachuk, Backlund and Neal actually sounds like it'd be a good line, so we'll see if Neal can find his game with them. Pretty much everyone that's been tried up with Backlund has benefitted.

except that they tried that line last year and it was bloody terrible. Neal does not fit with those two at all.

He made Backlund much worse and seemingly just made tkachuk more boring: https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/wowy/...nealxja87/wrap

He also really harmed Ryan when on the ice together and Hamonic suffered a lot when out there with James

[TheScorpion]

There are a lot of ways to read that graph, but simply saying that Neal made Tkachuk "more boring" isn't one of them. When playing with Neal, Tkachuk and the Flames allowed fewer shots than usual while sacrificing some, but not as many, shots on goal. A net improvement.

You're right about the rest.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Im thinking Neal gets 20 goals and at least 40 pts next year.

I will eat a pube laced order of poutine if he doesn't!!

Quoted for reference...although I could see it happening.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames lost both trades on wasted cap space alone. In today’s dollars they were paying Staios over 3.7 million a year and for Smid it was the equivalent of over 4.4 million a year. Poor use of cap space to give up assets for boat anchor contracts like those.

Staios would be like the Flames finding a team to give them a 3rd rounder and a tweeter prospect for Stone. It would be pretty hard for BT to find a GM dumb enough to give him that value for Stone.

Terrible. It would be like trading Rick Tabaracci for boat anchor Aaron Gavey.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames lost both trades on wasted cap space alone. In today’s dollars they were paying Staios over 3.7 million a year and for Smid it was the equivalent of over 4.4 million a year. Poor use of cap space to give up assets for boat anchor contracts like those.

Staios would be like the Flames finding a team to give them a 3rd rounder and a tweeter prospect for Stone. It would be pretty hard for BT to find a GM dumb enough to give him that value for Stone.

There's a lot of wrong to unpack here lol. First, I am not sure any of what we gave up in those trades were notable "assets". Horak couldn't find his role with our club (nor with Edmonton, so now he's gone.) Brossoit was surpassed on our own depth charts, though I also thought we gave up on him too early. He was abysmal in Edmonton though and is finding his way now, but no guarantee at all that would have happened here. 3rd round picks go for 3rd pairing dmen every single year. It's one of the few set prices around the league that seems to have changed very little with time.

I also think that you have undervalued what Staios and to a lesser extent Smid were. Smid was a 1st round pick that had a solid start to his career and it was derailed by injuries. He may have been able to overcome though, so I think it was a worthy risk. Staios was, at one time, a much better defender than stone. He may have been over the hill when we picked him up, but he had a great playoff resume and that was Darryl's focus. The third rounder has even less value with Darryl making the pick and Aaron Johnson was a career AHLer so we pretty much got him for free.

[GioforPM]

Stone got 10 points in 82 games in 17-18. Staios got 10 points in 38 games in 2010-11.

[868904]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I'd assume that Neal has the second line spot locked down to start the year given his veteran status and his history of being a producer, despite last season.

Tkachuk, Backlund and Neal actually sounds like it'd be a good line, so we'll see if Neal can find his game with them. Pretty much everyone that's been tried up with Backlund has benefitted.

I wonder if it might be in the best interests of the team to just keep Frolik and play him with Backlund and Neal? You get the two most responsible forwards to compensate for Neal's lack of footspeed and defensive deficiencies. No winger has failed playing with both Frolik and Backlund.

Then you stick Tkachuk with Jankowski and Bennett. Those two played their best with a way past his prime Jagr. They might benefit from playing with a mini Jagr in Tkachuk.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

There are a lot of ways to read that graph, but simply saying that Neal made Tkachuk "more boring" isn't one of them. When playing with Neal, Tkachuk and the Flames allowed fewer shots than usual while sacrificing some, but not as many, shots on goal. A net improvement.

You're right about the rest.

Sure, but I think that given the rest of the data, that is a function of the opposing team attacking Neal's side of the ice more. The centres he played with and the defensemen on his side of the ice all got caved in when he was out there. To me that means that other people identified the weakness of his play and capitalized on it whenever possible.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I'd assume that Neal has the second line spot locked down to start the year given his veteran status and his history of being a producer, despite last season.

Tkachuk, Backlund and Neal actually sounds like it'd be a good line, so we'll see if Neal can find his game with them. Pretty much everyone that's been tried up with Backlund has benefitted.

Yuck. Neal doesn't belong there. Bennett does.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames lost both trades on wasted cap space alone. In today’s dollars they were paying Staios over 3.7 million a year and for Smid it was the equivalent of over 4.4 million a year. Poor use of cap space to give up assets for boat anchor contracts like those.

Staios would be like the Flames finding a team to give them a 3rd rounder and a tweeter prospect for Stone. It would be pretty hard for BT to find a GM dumb enough to give him that value for Stone.

I think the Flames won the Smid trade as they had an NHL asset. Played over 100 games over three seasons (due to injuries) where the Oilers had Horak for a whopping 2 games and Brossoit started 20 games before moving on. We had cap space to burn during the time Smid was here. i would say that is a clear win.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Yuck. Neal doesn't belong there. Bennett does.

And the legend of Sam Bennett continues to grow.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think the Flames won the Smid trade as they had an NHL asset. Played over 100 games over three seasons (due to injuries) where the Oilers had Horak for a whopping 2 games and Brossoit started 20 games before moving on. We had cap space to burn during the time Smid was here. i would say that is a clear win.

I don't think anyone wins a trade where you get Smid. He was terrible.

It was a nothing trade in which neither team won. Or lost.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

And the legend of Sam Bennett continues to grow.

I'm no Bennett booster, but he outperformed neal in literally every measurable way last season, and has a much higher chance of improving his play this year than Neal does.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm no Bennett booster, but he outperformed neal in literally every measurable way last season, and has a much higher chance of improving his play this year than Neal does.

This isn't true, Neal had much better shot suppression

Still I'd like to see Bennett given a chance just as much as Neal.