I liked this quote from reddit re: Dany's descent.
Quote:
I love Martin’s writing, because in ADWD she spends a good part of her inner monologue thinking about the girl that was killed and wondering if she was becoming a monster.
And at the end, after Drogon carries her away from Mereen, she can’t remember the girl’s name. But she’s hearing the grass talk to her in Jorah’s voice, telling her to remember that she’s a dragon.
It’s a wonderful setup for a much darker Daenerys. One that wasn’t really conveyed in the show.
Yeah, she pretty much explicitly states this to Jon though.
When she tried to kiss him, she says "it's fear then" or something similar.
She's saying at that point she knows the people in Westeros will never love her, so if she's going to rule (which she is), she's going to have to rule by fear. At that point she's decided she's going to wreck King's landing no matter what.
When the city surrenders, she loses it because she wanted to destroy that city so no one would ever challenger her ever again. She doesn't want anyone to even think "Hey that Jon Snow guy who did what he could to limit the destruction in King's Landing, who took the surrender of the Lanniser Army, he's a good guy, he should be King."
When the city surrenders, something Tyrion and Jon wanted to happen, she sees that as another sign that people love Jon, so they have to fear her, and by the 7 gods she's gonna make sure they fear her.
There's still a pretty big leap from inspiring fear and purposely burning thousands of women and children to death. It was more a conversation about having to attack if Cercei didn't relent and show people who was boss. What Dany did was totally unnecessary. She at no point expressed hatred for the civilians within King's Landing.
To be fair to the writers, they wanted to create as much of a surprise as possible. So they purposely didn't give away many clues that this would be as brutal as it was.
And looking back on it, the more I think about it, the more I see her motivations. If she hadn't done that, it would have been a question of time before the other armies rallied against her and replaced her with Jon. Now she forces the confrontation before that can happen. Maybe this is more of a calculated play than madness.
There's still a pretty big leap from inspiring fear and purposely burning thousands of women and children to death. It was more a conversation about having to attack if Cercei didn't relent and show people who was boss. What Dany did was totally unnecessary. She at no point expressed hatred for the civilians within King's Landing.
Part of that is war, though. For example, why did the US decide to fire bomb Tokyo? Or why drop the second atomic bomb (or the first one, for that matter)? Did President Truman go mad? I wouldn't say so.
The articles carefully chronicles how this 'turn' is well within her, but then follows with a whole section titled this
That pretty much fits how I feel about the episode. What ended up happening does make sense in the grand scheme, and I like it. But I don't like how they got there. That's what's been lacking this season in how they've rushed their storyline. You're not getting the built up context that leads to these events. It's just very suddening and 'forced', rather than developing organically.
What happen to Dany to get to this point is understandable why she would just snap, and it's been hinted time and time again both this season, and previous ones. But the show didn't pull off in making it happen in a convincing fashion. So as a result, the reaction from me isn't as strong or engaging as it should be.
For what was such a brutal and climatic moment, it just felt flat to me. And that falls in line with the season as a whole. The show isn't finishing as strong as you would hope.
I'm a big fan of this show and have enjoyed this season too, except for the dark episode. The over the top criticisms seem to be too much and I don't much enjoy reading them.
But while this episode was entertaining, Dany's heel turn was too abrupt. To become a mass murdering butcher was jarring.
Interesting they never showed her on the dragon once the killing spree started. Any chance she only wanted to go after Cersei but the dragon went rogue and she was trying to stop the thing? I suppose not.
Part of that is war, though. For example, why did the US decide to fire bomb Tokyo? Or why drop the second atomic bomb (or the first one, for that matter)? Did President Truman go mad? I wouldn't say so.
If the Japanese unconditionally surrendered and then the American's dropped both bombs, that would be the equivalent.
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Part of that is war, though. For example, why did the US decide to fire bomb Tokyo? Or why drop the second atomic bomb (or the first one, for that matter)? Did President Truman go mad? I wouldn't say so.
The US did all that before Japan surrendered, not after. Tokyo was a strategic industrial centre. The firebombing took a huge toll on their productive capacity. Even then, the Japanese didn't surrender until 8 months after when bombs were actually dropped. The USA dropped a 2nd bomb, because the Japanese refused to surrender after the first. Even then, there's a lot of speculation, that the real reason they surrendered was due to the Soviets opening up another front, and they were willing to endure the bombs.
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No one seems to be talking enough about the turning point in the show...
When Jon rejected Dany, she says "Let it be fear, then". She was willing to admit that the people loved Jon more, and if they were together, King's Landing would stand. Jon killed everyone in that city, in that moment.
That and the end of Varys. He was attempting to assassinate Dany using the girl from the kitchens to poison her, and the only thing that saved her was her grief from losing her dragon ruining her appetite. Tyrion holding Varys's hand before he died surprised Varys. He thought that he had no real friends, and learned differently right before his death. It was all handled very well, but overshadowed by the rest of the episode. The beginning of the episode was really very strong.
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Can we all agree that Euron the Pirate was a blight on the show? He died the way he lived: saying something that didn’t make sense.
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I was going to blame HBO for forcing the writers to cut the season short therefore screwing up a lot plot lines, but I guess I was wrong.
I still don't get why they didn't film at least 3-4 episodes more and spend some time finalizing the storylines.
They were all to keen to blow screen time in earlier seasons on what became completely irrelevant characters and plots, but suddenly they didn't want to do that?
Did they get writers fatigue or what?
The episode was still well done, but I think it is disappointing how they got there. Still don't know exactly why Jon was brought back to life. Sure hope his side story about his past is actually part of the final episode.
No one seems to be talking enough about the turning point in the show...
When Jon rejected Dany, she says "Let it be fear, then". She was willing to admit that the people loved Jon more, and if they were together, King's Landing would stand. Jon killed everyone in that city, in that moment.
That and the end of Varys. He was attempting to assassinate Dany using the girl from the kitchens to poison her, and the only thing that saved her was her grief from losing her dragon ruining her appetite. Tyrion holding Varys's hand before he died surprised Varys. He thought that he had no real friends, and learned differently right before his death. It was all handled very well, but overshadowed by the rest of the episode. The beginning of the episode was really very strong.
Good point. Dany was giving Jon the chance to rule as Husband and Wife and his reaction sealed her fate. Come on Jon Snow, I know sleeping with your Aunt goes against your Northern sensibilities, but take one for the team.
Oh I didn't get that Varys was trying to poison Dany. I just though he found another little bird to help him collect info. I guess it makes sense although if he killed Dany then toppling Cersei just got a whole lot harder.
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I thought the little girl was just spying on Dany. Varys had become the master of whisperers all over again he just couldn’t help himself from scheming. I did not get the sense he planned to murder her. And if he was, he’d be better at it than that.
He got busted because Tyrion ratted him out. An interesting turn in and of itself. Tyrion seemed to be on the brink of turning traitor with Varys but eventually sided with Dany. He did not choose wisely.
I thought the little girl was just spying on Dany. Varys had become the master of whisperers all over again he just couldn’t help himself from scheming. I did not get the sense he planned to murder her. And if he was, he’d be better at it than that.
He got busted because Tyrion ratted him out. An interesting turn in and of itself. Tyrion seemed to be on the brink of turning traitor with Varys but eventually sided with Dany. He did not choose wisely.
If they killed Dany before the battle Jon probably just goes home. He had no real interest in fighting Cersei. So if you wanted Cersei overthrown I think Dany was the only one to be willing to do it.
But I assume it’s a coincidence that he got turned in right after. I can’t imagine Tyrion knew. Unless maybe Dany had multiple pieces of evidence against him.
If ever there was a character who needed to be fleshed out its Varys. There’s a great Alt Shift X (book spoilers) about him that outlines how he’s a confounding character. He’s difficult to unravel and we may never know his true intentions.
Jon definitely needed some better skills for talking with his girlfriend. He was pretty much at a junior high level of communicating his emotions and thoughts with Dany. I agree that many lives could have been saved had Jon not been living with the night's watch all boys club for so long.
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