Calgarypuck Mafia Game Thread

[devo22]

figured I'd go back and look at all the votes so far. Bold indicates a vote that "counted" at the end of the day.

DEVO22
Day 1: WinnipegFan, Scornfire
Day 2: GGG (2x)
Day 3: crazy_eoj
Day 4: -

DROPIT
Day 1: dissentowner, Bonded
Day 2: -
Day 3: SebC
Day 4: SebC

HOCKEYGUY15
Day 1: Scornfire
Day 2: GGG
Day 3: -
Day 4: DropIt

MRKAJZ44
Day 1: agulati
Day 2: Hockeyguy15
Day 3: SebC
Day 4: SebC

PUXLUT
Day 1: crazy_eoj, Bonded
Day 2: -
Day 3: mrkajz44, crazy_eoj
Day 4: SebC

SCORNFIRE
Day 1: WinnipegFan, Bonded
Day 2: -
Day 3: crazy_eoj
Day 4: DropIt

WINNIPEGFAN
Day 1: agulati
Day 2: GGG (2x)
Day 3: Scornfire
Day 4: Scornfire, SebC

[devo22]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

So far my tactic of focusing on voting patterns has gotten me nowhere. I think I might need to abandon that way of thinking. It didn't tip me off to either Bonded nor GGG. It's also lead me to target agulati and SebC, now both confirmed town.

funny. As I went through all the votes, I just noticed that you're the only one who's never cast a vote on an Oiler ... and now I see you posted this.

[mrkajz44]

Yeah, to be honest I'm not surprised that people would be looking my direction after SebC turned Flames fan. The votes speak for themselves - I wasn't in on the vote out of either Bonded nor GGG, and of the 3 total people I've actually voted for, 2 are confirmed Flames fan. Not a great voting history.

I will say this though - I feel my reasoning (at the time) was quite solid for all of my votes. I never voted without clearly stating why I was voting, and I really thought I was on some good trains of thought. The reason I want to look back through the thread is because I'm not so sure that everyone has been as clear about me about their votes.

I'm getting frustrated with the lack of playing. We can't play if people don't vote or talk.

[WinnipegFan]

I have voted every time but currently I am shocked that SebC was a townie, now I am not sure how to proceed. My only other suspicions lied with Scornfire, but I don't know anymore. The only theory I have thus far points to mrkajz44 as he is the only one who never voted for an Oiler. I am hoping to reread all of this and try to make another potential theory but today I reread and the only one that stuck for me was my original theory regarding Scorn. Perhaps I am blinded by that and will reread again looking at mrkajz44. Any other thoughts out there?

When the curtain started to come down on GGG, they might have had a little chat in their room and figured (because it was pretty obvious it was going to happen) that GGG was going to get booted and that the proxy should throw a vote on him as well. They were already going to be down 2 with one left. Why not really hide with the sacrifice vote? They might have thought "They'll never think that we would vote for one of our own!" With GGG sitting in that ring of oil, I wouldn't put it past him to put that plan in place before he self lynched. And now that proxy is just lying low... waiting for us all to pick ourselves off

[devo22]

yeah it's frustrating. I hoped there'd be more discussion today, but only a handful posts after I went to bed yesterday is disappointing.

Looking back at all the votes, I just don't think any of the Bonded voters are Oilers. It was a close vote, and none of them just piled on but were key votes. Puxlut was the fourth vote, DropIt the fifth and Scornfire the sixth and deciding vote. If they were Oilers, they could have easily voted for agulati or, in Pux and DropIts case, for Scornfire without a lot of ramifications. Day 1 is a crapshoot and a Flames cardflip wouldn't just make them suspicious. Voting for an Oiler in such a vote makes no sense, so I'm thinking those three are probably Flames. As for the GGG voters, Hockeyguy went hard at him multiple times and was adamant on the lynch. Gives me a strong town feel as well.

So that leaves WinnipegFan and mrkajz44 for me. WF did vote for GGG, but the timing of him setting up hammer a.k.a. GGGs suicide doesn't sit well with me (in addition to his playing style). I still think he's town, but maybe his style is by design. As an Oiler, it wouldn't be the worst strategy to carry on like early in the game. He's not lynched because he's assumed town (only SebC argued for his lynch despite this) and we're not surprised he isn't nightkilled. So if he is an Oiler, it's decent play at this point. I still have him on my radar.

[Hockeyguy15]

Alright my busy day is over and I'm able to participate today. Just in reply to the couple of recent posts before I do some digging.

Mrkajz made a comment about look at the reasoning for voting, off the top of my head I believe WinnipegFan pretty much bandwagon/revenge votes except for the 1 time he made a case for Scornfire. Mrkajz I do remember explaining his votes so that seems less Oiler like to me.

For the remaining people Puxlut I would have to go back and look, I honestly don't really remember much of her play so far. Devo hasn't done anything to really make me suspect him as and Oiler fan. Scornfire I think I've come to consider Flames fan at this point, there is the off chance that he voted Bonded out to get Flame credit but I'm going to not assume that for now. DropIt I'm still unsure of, pretty much nothing I brought up the otherday was addressed or discussed so I don't have reolution on it. I know he voted Bonded but there are still some red flags.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Well - quite a bit of information to work with now. Where to start?

First, I agree with Devo that none of the people who voted for Bonded are Oilers. I had first thought that maybe one of them would be in their to hide, but with the vote so close, it just doesn't make sense for any of them to be on him. The votes were locked in far in advance of the deadline so the Oilers would have had time to organize and come off Bonded and try to get someone else banned.

Second, I think my theory about the Winnipeg pile-on early is now completely wrong. Three of the people that were part of that voted Bonded in the end, leaving only Devo. I had ruled out Devo initially as he was the first vote on Winnipeg. So basically the whole theory just makes no sense given the card flips in Day 1 and Night 1.

Third - the bizaro ban during the night phase. Trying to get inside the Oilers' head to decide why they banned him. Was it because he was on to something and they wanted to silence him? Or just get out a vet player that wasn't on the right track (a little reverse psychology). Personally, I think the Oilers might have been in a bit of a panic mode and wanted to get rid of someone who might have beat the drum the next day for another Maifa player.

Bizaro's last post before the night phase said he was thinking agulati was a good target. Prior to that, he was a bit on the HG train, but seemed less confident. He mentions Scorn as well a bit in the later stages of the day. Both Scorn and agulati were on the Bonded vote, so I rule them out. That leaves HG - prior to the discussion today (which obviously is happening after the bizaro ban), no one else was really looking at HG as a possible Oiler.

Finally - something of GGG has felt off for me from the start. Yes - his style has been consistent where he drives the conversation and really bears down on certain people, but something just feels different this time. It seems others have the same thoughts. SebC bringing up the fact that GGG told him his vote was wrong "reveals" that GGG knows more than than the rest of us does resonate with me. When I was mafia, I remember making a few slip-ups where I shouldn't have known something but it always seemed to be overlooked. Sometime the smallest slip-up can mean big things, especially when the Oilers know more than the Flames.

So my summary - I am looking at GGG or HG today. With how they seem to be facing off with each other, I suspect one is Flames and one is Oilers. The bizaro banning leans my vote to HG for now, but GGG is high on my radar.

Can you revisit this for me and explain why you voted me instead of GGG? Picking me over GGG because of the bizaro ban doesn't make sense to me.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Alright my busy day is over and I'm able to participate today. Just in reply to the couple of recent posts before I do some digging.

Mrkajz made a comment about look at the reasoning for voting, off the top of my head I believe WinnipegFan pretty much bandwagon/revenge votes except for the 1 time he made a case for Scornfire. Mrkajz I do remember explaining his votes so that seems less Oiler like to me.

For the remaining people Puxlut I would have to go back and look, I honestly don't really remember much of her play so far. Devo hasn't done anything to really make me suspect him as and Oiler fan. Scornfire I think I've come to consider Flames fan at this point, there is the off chance that he voted Bonded out to get Flame credit but I'm going to not assume that for now. DropIt I'm still unsure of, pretty much nothing I brought up the otherday was addressed or discussed so I don't have reolution on it. I know he voted Bonded but there are still some red flags.

I may have missed what you wanted addressed? I feel I made s case for what you considered a typing slip-up andmy day 2 non vote? Was there others?

[DropIt]

As far as this day goes, like I said I'm a big surprised HG is still around ad he is a noted strong player and based on his GGG hunt, would fall under the category of 'known Flame fan'.

A lot of talk about a mafia member potentially killing off another one to gain favour, if anything GGG and his aggressive playstyle was the better target for pitchforking by a fellow mafia member. He was loud and clumsy and likely knew he made some errors and was going to be gone sooner rather than later. HG was vocal about getting hin out and then dairy dormant since then.

I think there is a good chance the plan was for HG to spearhead the killing of GGG since he was going down soon anyways, gain favour as an experienced townie and start picking off other players to the end.

[Hockeyguy15]

Well the possible slip up isn't much to defend, either it's a slip up or it's you putting yourself in GGG's shoes. People will have to look at it and weigh it with your body of work on their own.

Post 714 (sorry won't let me quote it) there are a couple of things you could address in it, but looking back you just left it alone.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by DropIt

As far as this day goes, like I said I'm a big surprised HG is still around ad he is a noted strong player and based on his GGG hunt, would fall under the category of 'known Flame fan'.

A lot of talk about a mafia member potentially killing off another one to gain favour, if anything GGG and his aggressive playstyle was the better target for pitchforking by a fellow mafia member. He was loud and clumsy and likely knew he made some errors and was going to be gone sooner rather than later. HG was vocal about getting hin out and then dairy dormant since then.

I think there is a good chance the plan was for HG to spearhead the killing of GGG since he was going down soon anyways, gain favour as an experienced townie and start picking off other players to the end.

The night kills since GGG was banned are dissentowner, fuzz, agulati. You think that I have been viewed as more of a Flames fan than all of them? Dissentowner was seen about as close to a Flames fan as you could get, fuzz was 100% town, and I don't think anyone after day 1 even suspected agulati to be an Oilers fan.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

The night kills since GGG was banned are dissentowner, fuzz, agulati. You think that I have been viewed as more of a Flames fan than all of them? Dissentowner was seen about as close to a Flames fan as you could get, fuzz was 100% town, and I don't think anyone after day 1 even suspected agulati to be an Oilers fan.

Absolutely more rha Agulati. My point being that the Oiler fan, being the only one left, would (should) likely be looking at getting rid of the known, experienced Flames fan that helped flush out GGG, no? You have experience in the game and have proven to be an effective mafia hunter in this game. So why chance keeping you around?

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Absolutely more rha Agulati. My point being that the Oiler fan, being the only one left, would (should) likely be looking at getting rid of the known, experienced Flames fan that helped flush out GGG, no? You have experience in the game and have proven to be an effective mafia hunter in this game. So why chance keeping you around?

Because there's still posters expressing doubt around HG, Agulati had basically been in the clear since day 1. Agulati flushed out Bonded with only Dissent really supporting the argument. There was several people railing hard against GGG so I doubt they credit GGG's outing solely on HG, they certainly shouldn't

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Absolutely more rha Agulati. My point being that the Oiler fan, being the only one left, would (should) likely be looking at getting rid of the known, experienced Flames fan that helped flush out GGG, no? You have experience in the game and have proven to be an effective mafia hunter in this game. So why chance keeping you around?

It's interesting that you say you think I'm more Flames fan than agulati, because as I've been going back through the days my name pops up more in your lists of possible Oilers fans. In fact I don't think agulati was mentioned once as a possibility.

[Hockeyguy15]

DropIt let me ask you this. I made post #540 outlining where my head was at after looking at GGG's posts, and then you came back with a defense in post #542 except I hadn't even made a case against you?

Originally Posted by DropIt

I figured someone would come up with that theory.

My question would be why I would tie up the vote against Bonded when it would have been so easy to tilt the scales at Agulati? I mentioned I didnt really know have a basis I was voting on and that it was gut instinct.

Seems like pretty bold/poor Mafia play to intentionally get the mafia numbers down from 3 to 2 on the first day, a day that is generally a guessing game.

[Scornfire]

To answer that quote, Why would you tie up a vote that was already AT Threshold without much justification?

From my PoV, It's great cover down the road and there's a greater than average chance that based on my posts to that point (Arguing against Fuzz's reasoning, backing up Bonded) that I don't vote Bonded day 1

This is the same line of thinking GGG has in post #383 but he doesn't explore your culpability in that vote here at all

Originally Posted by GGG

Agulati I’m less sure on I think there is a scenario where he just wants to be on an early wagon on his own guy. The next 3 all had options to push a different direction without suspicion so likely aren’t scum. Scorn at the end has to chose between Agulati and Bonded chooses to keep Agulait based on experience. In this position if Scorn and Bonded are both scum it might make sense to cut their losses and have Scorn vote out Bonded as in that scenario they would both be targets the following day if they didn’t. It would also make sense that Scorn waited so long to place his vote. This works especially well if he is the proxy troll. However I don’t think we go there today.

My response;

Originally Posted by Scornfire

I was in no real danger of being pursued today regardless of which way I voted, 2 of the people who voted for me were extremely early and without much reasoning. I could have easily picked Agulati without raising any suspicions if he flips flames fan, the suspicion would've been passed to DropIt who tied the vote needlessly by avoiding voting for agulati. So why are you trying to push this narrative? It's especially interesting to me since this is essentially the way I WOULD infact be thinking to work it if I were a troll and had a newbie on my team who wasn't doing great, it's interesting that the thought crosses your mind so quickly.

I'd like to explore this further, why is the vote tying of no consequence to him when he's investigating all these alternate universe theories. His response to me in post #423 completely dodges this point

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

The theory post I made I didnt really care for either. I was trying to get into the oiler lynch as much as anyone. Afterwards I did offer to post what my thought process was. For the record I was trying to piece together posting times, as my theory was that you likelynwouldnt have 3 mafia members all "hunting" simultaneously,

Fair. Again it was day 1 and there really isnt much else to go on. I felt Diss had made a great post and reasoning, and diss was right. I think the vote results show that nobody really had much else to go on in day 1.


Day 2 GGG has his first post #383 and says.

I thi k his is more of you trying to see something not there. He lumped together everyone in the Bonded vote together, leaving Agulati out as someone who got a vote in early and couldn't come up with a way out of it, and Sckrn as someone who in an extreme measure voted out his own guy, who was sitting on the chopping block to gain favour.


Post #412 from Scornfire looks pretty Flames like to me. Even though he doesn’t put a vote on GGG at that moment I like his thought process on it.

Post #428 DropIt stops by to say good work and he will come back after doing some reading.

Your paraphrasing here is getting a little suspicious now. I brought up a point about the night ki of Biz, who was very active and had people voting for hin day 1. At this point it had not been discussed much, if at all, and how that could have looked going forward. Discussing who is night killed the day after it is done is IMO, more of a thorough look at who and why it happened then it is taking attention away.

In fact, in this same breath, only 2 posts after I wanted people to discuss why Biz was killed, it was you who put a stop to that conversation by bringing back attention to GGG, who at this po t was already under heavy investigation and leading in votes. It seems to me that you are trying to avoid anyone discussing anything that would potentially link GGG to anyone else. The same way he did when he banned himself.

True, and for good reason. Again was looking at the voting patterns of the kill the day before and there was legitimate reason to be concerned. I dont think GGG would jump on a fellow mafia members "suspicion" and try to run with it, lumping us together in what he knows is a desperation attempt. This seems like a case of GGG jumping on the next name to see if he can get the ball rolling.


Day 1 and 2 to me DropIt has been under the radar and not doing a whole bunch of investigating.

I will try to get into day 3 at some point today since I’m not going to be available tomorrow. But after looking at day 1 and 2 I think I have read enough to put down a vote.

I think throughout days 1 and 2 I did some investigations, it landed me in diss who was super Calgary and made me look stupid and I pointed that out. Was I doing my investigation based on small missteps in quotes? No. I was however providing input on night kills and voting patterns which I believe holds water. They just seemed to be getting stamped out and lost in text every time I did.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

It's interesting that you say you think I'm more Flames fan than agulati, because as I've been going back through the days my name pops up more in your lists of possible Oilers fans. In fact I don't think agulati was mentioned once as a possibility.

Originally Posted by DropIt

What seems odd to me is Biz was probably after Scorn the hardest, with Agulati a close 2nd. He did throw out a vote for MrK, but that was admittedly for someone who "had not yet voted" (#145), so I dont put much stock into that.

If there were players who were to be pissed off or threatened by Biz it would seem to be Agulati or Scorn, who now both seem to be Flames (Scorn moreso).

So I can't imagine Biz was close to outing another Oiler, and that his kill was to try and set us In another direction, but that trail seems to stop dead.

So my two thoughts are either:
1. Biz was a revenge kill. He was the one who started the finger pointing at Bonded about his PM/Conn Smythe comment. If this is the case I would wager we have a very inexperienced Oilers group as this would he a very poor choice IMO.

2. Another Oilers member was almost killed off, and they had to choose one to sacrifice, and the Bizaro kill was used to set the trail dead, leaving us with no clues as to whom that other person was.

Those are off the top of my head thoughts.

I addressed Agulati as a potential Oil fan after the Biz kill (discussion which you seemed to want stopped)

J hadnt made a strong case after the Bonded kill, which I think was warranted but I did mention he could be a part of a very poor Oilers group who reve ge killed Biz.

I also mentioned that I thought Agulati was a good chance at a Flame fan after the Bonded kill