[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wonder if the Fox signing in Calgary problem wasn't the market, but his insistence of a guaranteed spot.

Calgary with fairly deep prospect pool on the blueline said that can't happen. They checked back at the draft to see if he'd sign and earn it like other players and the answer was no.

This would suggest to me that Treliving doesn't buy into the Fox hype as much as some people.

I know it goes against the concept of "meritocracy", but if you think a player is NHL ready, or if you think that the player is special or rare enough in talents, then I feel the smart asset management decision would be to find a way to fit them into the line-up even if it means trading another player and giving them sheltered ice-time.

[DMac]

Adam Fox probably waiting until he graduates to sign an NHL contract. Will he be a free agent or draft eligible if not signed before end of 2020 season? Think signing pro contract ends his NCAA eligibility.

[Hackey]

We were suppose to be subtracting from our blue line to help our forward group but somehow both are actually significantly better. This trade has been so huge for this team.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Hamilton a -4 tonight, scored on his own net, took a sloppy tripping penalty, and just looks bad and soft. Glad the flames got rid of Jay Boumester 2.0 at the perfect time. I thought Hanifin would be better than Hamilton in a couple years but I wouldn’t swap them 1 for 1 currently.

God bless the Wizard

I'll disagree with the bolded 10 times out of 10. There's little likelihood Hamilton lasts as long in this league as Bouwmeester (35 and still going). Didn't work out in Calgary, the reigns were off him in Florida, but the pressure and defense first mantra the summer he got signed here didn't help.
The Flames bent over backwards to try and placate Hamilton with signing and holding onto his brother, with his defensive pairing, with his mood swings etc, hoping that he'd get past the things that were holding him back from transforming that physical raw talent and ability and potential, into a premier defenseman.
They sold just in time, though it cut a year and a half or two off of both Brodie and Gio's prime in the process.

[djsFlames]

Hanifin has been really good over the past few weeks. Really noticed him tonight in a similar way to how I would notice Dougie when he was playing his best hockey as a Flame.

[Phagoof]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hanifin has been really good over the past few weeks. Really noticed him tonight in a similar way to how I would notice Dougie when he was playing his best hockey as a Flame.

Totally agree. We have to remeber the kid is 21. Yet this is his 4th year in the league. He is going to be a top pairing guy in my mind and is Gio's replacement when he retires.

Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-X
Kylington-X

future is bright, this trade was a steal.

[calgarywinning]

I've really enjoyed Hanifin's play but he struggled tonight and let a Philly break and score on a gaff. However, over the course of the season he plays well beyond his age and is physical while being very vested in the outcome of the game. He's got a good knack for when to be offensive as well.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This would suggest to me that Treliving doesn't buy into the Fox hype as much as some people.

I know it goes against the concept of "meritocracy", but if you think a player is NHL ready, or if you think that the player is special or rare enough in talents, then I feel the smart asset management decision would be to find a way to fit them into the line-up even if it means trading another player and giving them sheltered ice-time.

Except the post you’re quoting is speculation so I wouldn’t conclude anything based on it. We don’t know why Fox didn’t sign here last year. At the time, no one was claiming he was anti Canada or entitled. Now that he’s traded I guess it’s all fair game.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Except the post you’re quoting is speculation so I wouldn’t conclude anything based on it. We don’t know why Fox didn’t sign here last year. At the time, no one was claiming he was anti Canada or entitled. Now that he’s traded I guess it’s all fair game.

Next up for the character assassination...Micheal Ferland! Then the trifecta is complete.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This would suggest to me that Treliving doesn't buy into the Fox hype as much as some people.

I know it goes against the concept of "meritocracy", but if you think a player is NHL ready, or if you think that the player is special or rare enough in talents, then I feel the smart asset management decision would be to find a way to fit them into the line-up even if it means trading another player and giving them sheltered ice-time.

I would say that Fox's handling by the Flames had much more to do with how he stacked up against internal competition like Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki than it did with the hype. The Flames are fortunate to have a lot of really good young defensemen who are breaking in to the NHL.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would say that Fox's handling by the Flames had much more to do with how he stacked up against internal competition like Andersson, Kylington and Valimaki than it did with the hype. The Flames are fortunate to have a lot of really good young defensemen who are breaking in to the NHL.

Carolina has a pretty good and fairly young D pool, so I'm not sure if Fox cracks that lineup any time soon. He needs to pass Hamilton, Slavin, TVR, Faulk, De Haan, Pesce, to make the top 6 and then there's first rounders Haydn Fleury and Jake Bean in the way as well.

[devo22]

Carrick and McKeown too. They are ridiculously stacked on D.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Except the post you’re quoting is speculation so I wouldn’t conclude anything based on it. We don’t know why Fox didn’t sign here last year. At the time, no one was claiming he was anti Canada or entitled. Now that he’s traded I guess it’s all fair game.

Treliving said there was an issue with the player signing (don't remember the exact words), so I don't see that as speculation.

He also said they discussed it again on draft weekend, so that's not speculation.

He could be lying about it, but otherwise it's a factual account.

The only thing I speculated on was that maybe the issue wasn't Calgary, or Canada or the West, but the fact that they wouldn't guarantee him a spot.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Treliving said there was an issue with the player signing (don't remember the exact words), so I don't see that as speculation.

He also said they discussed it again on draft weekend, so that's not speculation.

He could be lying about it, but otherwise it's a factual account.

The only thing I speculated on was that maybe the issue wasn't Calgary, or Canada or the West, but the fact that they wouldn't guarantee him a spot.

I agree - although there's a decent chance he is lying about it. Right after the trade, Fox's agent said they never discussed plans beyond this year with Treliving and Fox never said he wasn't going to sign in CGY. So someone is covering their tracks and unless we know what actually went on (which is unlikely), it's all just speculation.

[868904]

Or it is just as simple as:

Flames gets two long term controlled assets

in exchange for

One mid term controlled asset, a short term asset, and an uncertain asset.

Treliving saying there was an issue is probably just alluding to the fact that Fox was not a controlled asset. I didn't necessarily read it like Tre saying that Fox wouldn't sign, just that there was no guarantee that he would. Which is why he was included in the deal to land two pieces that Tre felt would be long term core pieces.

I'm beginning to think that Hamilton's value wasn't that high. Many people are now seeing how poor he is defensively. Not only that, but he stunted Giordano's offense as well. If a team was scouting Hamilton, they would have seen how flawed he was. I really don't think his value was all that high. Coupled with the fact that the second asset was a soon to be UFA 40 point forward with concussion issues, meant that the Flames had to give up something with greater potential. Fox was by no means a "throw in" as some like to make it out to be, he was an uncertain asset with value that was needed to balance out the flawed assets that Hamilton and Ferland were.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 868904

...I'm beginning to think that Hamilton's value wasn't that high. Many people are now seeing how poor he is defensively. Not only that, but he stunted Giordano's offense as well. If a team was scouting Hamilton, they would have seen how flawed he was. I really don't think his value was all that high. Coupled with the fact that the second asset was a soon to be UFA 40 point forward with concussion issues, meant that the Flames had to give up something with greater potential. Fox was by no means a "throw in" as some like to make it out to be, he was an uncertain asset with value that was needed to balance out the flawed assets that Hamilton and Ferland were.

The first part of your post is spot-on, but I think you are underselling Hamilton's value here. Lindholm and Hanifin were core pieces under the age of 24-years-old at the time of the trade. Even with Ferland and Fox in the mix of that deal it is a massive return. Maybe Hamilton's value was not as high as some expected, but it was still pretty damn high given all the pieces in the trade.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I agree - although there's a decent chance he is lying about it. Right after the trade, Fox's agent said they never discussed plans beyond this year with Treliving and Fox never said he wasn't going to sign in CGY. So someone is covering their tracks and unless we know what actually went on (which is unlikely), it's all just speculation.

I think there is pretty much no chance that he was lying about it.

I think it is simply a situation of nuances. The agent likely made some comments that were concerning, and implied an uncertainty as to their intentions.

However, as long as he never said "he is not going to sign with Calgary" then afterwards it is very straight-forward, and truthful, to claim that they never said they wouldn't sign.

As soon as Fox decided he was going back for year 3, the risk of not getting him signed went up (even if only slightly). Then they had conversations in the summer, and Treliving clearly came away from them with some level of concern.

Then he was traded.

[Jacks]

If I remember correctly it was a "family advisor", or something like that, who informed the Flames that he wasn't going to sign. It wasn't the agent or Fox himself.

In other news Ferland is #8 on the TSN trade bait board for what that is worth.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think there is pretty much no chance that he was lying about it.

I think it is simply a situation of nuances. The agent likely made some comments that were concerning, and implied an uncertainty as to their intentions.

However, as long as he never said "he is not going to sign with Calgary" then afterwards it is very straight-forward, and truthful, to claim that they never said they wouldn't sign.

As soon as Fox decided he was going back for year 3, the risk of not getting him signed went up (even if only slightly). Then they had conversations in the summer, and Treliving clearly came away from them with some level of concern.

Then he was traded.

I doubt Treliving was lying. Given the timing of his comments, it seems rather obvious why he volunteered what he did. And also not surprised Fox or the family representative were perhaps a little miffed that those comments were made.

But yeah he didn’t sign after his sophomore year so no doubt there’s risk. I am certain the Flames believed there was some risk with Gaudreau too.

But what’s not so great is inventing reasons as to why he didn’t sign (doesn’t like Canada, sense of entitlement) that reflect negatively on him. There’s no need for that IMO absent some factual information.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Jacks

If I remember correctly it was a "family advisor", or something like that, who informed the Flames that he wasn't going to sign. It wasn't the agent or Fox himself.

In other news Ferland is #8 on the TSN trade bait board for what that is worth.

NCAA players technically aren't allowed to have "agents", so yeah, it'd be a "family advisor". But that's pretty much the same thing.