HNIC: Nylander officially on the trade block

[Monahammer]

I would trade Hanifin for Nylander.

[jonkaupp]

Any Nylander deal has to begin with Valimaki. I don’t think we have the assets to acquire him personally, along with have bigger issues to deal with (goalie)

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I would trade Hanifin for Nylander.

I would to but only straight across. And then we’d need to deal someone from the forward lines to acquire a defensemen.

Guess this contradicts my previous post. To rephrase, any deal has to start with a young top flight defencemen like Valimaki or Hanifin.

[David Struch]

I wonder if Sam Bennett still trains with Andy O'Brien (who also trains John Tavares)

Here's a little CP thread talking about the 2014 entry draft...

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=129231

I remember being content with the prospect of drafting Nylander.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Though the rumor mill changes a bit each time, the consensus number is between $8 - $9 long term.

Do you have a source for this... really, 9 million?

[bax]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Why though? the conversation would have to start with at least Valimaki or Tkachuk and I'm not willing to discuss that.

Tkachuk is a non starter, but I would potentially look at Valimaki.

I haven’t watched enough of Nylander to have an opinion if he’s a game breaker or not, but if your scouts think he is then you have to consider it right?

Every team in the league would have paid the price for Seguin or Hall at the time regardless of need. Just something to consider.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Do you have a source for this... really, 9 million?

Pretty well known he is after Draisaitl money. Couldn't find Friedman's take on it (though he has said the same I am sure) but here is some info

https://thehockeynews.com/news/artic...leafs-nylander

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...landers-value/

[bax]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

A Maserati is a pretty dynamic car. Doesn't mean I'll ‘enter the conversation’ by trying to haggle with the dealership.

When you trade for players under contract, you give up team assets. When you sign UFAs, you give up money. RFAs are the worst of both worlds – they cost assets AND money.

Normally there would be a tradeoff, but in this case it sounds like Nylander wants every dollar he would get as a UFA – which makes it a bad deal to trade significant assets for him. And I suspect the Leafs still have his rights because they are demanding full value on the trade – which is not worth giving when he hasn't agreed to a contract.

The Leafs want to screw Nylander. Nylander wants to screw the Leafs. The only way they can both be happy is if some other dumb GM steps in and lets them both screw him instead. Let Chia do it!

Well I’m assuming you don’t have the assets to buy a Maserati in your pocket so no you shouldn’t enter the conversation. A Maserati is going to depreciate in value, which isn’t the case for Nylander one would assume.

Depending on what the Leafs would want in return, the Flames do have some assets. 2019 first, Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson, Bennett, Hanifin, etc.

I don’t know enough about Nylander to know how good he is or how good he can be, I’m just saying it could be a rare situation where a young game breaker becomes available. Its at least worth exploring depending on what your scouts think because those situations don’t come up very often.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bax

Well I’m assuming you don’t have the assets to buy a Maserati in your pocket so no you shouldn’t enter the conversation. A Maserati is going to depreciate in value, which isn’t the case for Nylander one would assume.

Hockey players depreciate, too. That Maserati would probably be on the road for as many years as Nylander will be in the NHL.

That aside – I probably could scrape together the money to buy a Maserati, but not without selling a bunch of stuff I really can't do without. It would be an incredibly foolish thing to do. Selling off the organization's prospect depth and cost-controlled assets to buy a one-dimensional winger whose demands start at $8 million a year would be an incredibly foolish thing for the Flames to do.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Hockey players depreciate, too. That Maserati would probably be on the road for as many years as Nylander will be in the NHL.

That aside – I probably could scrape together the money to buy a Maserati, but not without selling a bunch of stuff I really can't do without. It would be an incredibly foolish thing to do. Selling off the organization's prospect depth and cost-controlled assets to buy a one-dimensional winger whose demands start at $8 million a year would be an incredibly foolish thing for the Flames to do.

Nylander is 22 years old. I think it's pretty safe to say he's not depreciating anytime soon. In fact, odds are his value only increases over the next 2-3 seasons.

It all depends on what ends up getting traded. Say a package of 2019 first, Bennett, and Andersson? It's a lot to give up, but I wouldn't say it's incredibly foolish. You have to give to get.

The 8 million is a rumor. By the time he finally has a contract I would imagine it is low 7's or high 6's. I truly believe the biggest hurdle they need to get over is the NTC situation.

I wouldn't call Nylander one dimensional either, he seem pretty competent in the defensive zone from my viewings, which granted isn't a lot.

Something to consider though- Nylander didn't get much PP1 time last year. He finished the year with 49 even strength points. Just for comparisons sake Crosby had 51, Kuznetsov had 52, Wheeler had 49, and Rantanen had 49.

Granted, I think he did play with Matthews for part of the year. Anyways the only point I'm trying to make is that it's something to at least consider if you think he would end up being a core forward for the next 5-10 years.

[mikephoen]

One thing I like to look at when considering a contract for a player, be it UFA, RFA or a trade, is what a salary structure would look like in an ideal world. I think a team should spend money on top 3 centres, top 4 defensemen and a top goalie. After that, the remaining money goes to a couple top line wingers, and you fill out the rest of the roster with what's left.

Take away all the player names, and just try to make a lineup with just AAVs. Here is what mine looks like:

5 --- 8.5 --- 6.5 ---—20M for the top line
3.5 --- 6 --- 2.5 ---—12M for the 2nd line
2 --- 4 --- 1.5 ---— 7.5M for the 3rd line
1 --- 1.5 --- 1 ---— 3.5M for the 4th line
.75 --- .75 ---— 1.5M for the extra forwards

9 --- 5.5
4 --- 4.5
1.5 --- 2
1

6.5
1


44.5 for the forwards (14)
27.5 for the defense (7)
7.5 for the goalies (2)

79.5 for the 2018/19 cap limit

So this lineup goes right to the cap, and has nothing in reserve for rookie bonuses or buyouts. You can do your own one however you want, but the idea is if you want to spend more in one area, you have to take it out of another area.

The Flames save a bit by having Monahan make less than the elite centers out there, and by Gio making less than an elite #1 defensemen. They actually aren't too far off on the spending model above, overall. But next year they have to fit in Tkachuk's big raise, adding more to the total price of on the wing and on the second line (since Johnny is always going to be the top line LW). Where does that come from? It will have to be Center and other wingers.

Now try to fit in Nylander. If you want a 7.5 M winger, on top of Tkachuk's 7M+, Johnny at 6.75 and Neal at 5.75, where do you cut from to fit it in. Better hope you have a rookie goalie you can play for 1M, or multiple entry level defensemen that can play for a few years at low cost. But even if you have those, if they perform well, you'll need to resign them at huge raises.

Anyway, the point of this is if you think the Flames can afford Nylander, try fitting in four wingers making 6.75, 7, 7.5 and 5.75 and see what it does to your salary structure in other areas. Remember, all of those contracts are long term as well. Sure, the cap will likely rise next year, but there is also likely some amount of cap wasted on buyouts most years as well.

I just don't see any championship team having more than 2 top tier wingers, maybe 3 at most. If you get more than that, you can't afford top tier Defence and Centres and those are what you win with in the playoffs.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I would trade Hanifin for Nylander.

I understand this sentiment, but Im not sure i would agree.

Stud young defensemen are a much tougher find than young stud wingers.

I think Hanifin has the potential to be among the best in the game as he learns the ropes and we are already seeing glimpses of it at age 21.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I understand this sentiment, but Im not sure i would agree.

Stud young defensemen are a much tougher find than young stud wingers.

I think Hanifin has the potential to be among the best in the game as he learns the ropes and we are already seeing glimpses of it at age 21.

Moreover, Hanifin is on a steal of a contract. Nylander at anyting over 7M priced himself out of most teams cap space. My take is that Nylander wont get traded for as much as some suggest. The leafs hands are tied.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I would trade Hanifin for Nylander.

Not in a million years would I trade Hanifin for Nylander. It takes Dmen awhile to reach their full potential, Hanifin is the future of our blueline, and IMO, the heir apparent to Gio. Nylander would be the 4th best winger on the team behind JG, MT and EL.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Not in a million years would I trade Hanifin for Nylander. It takes Dmen awhile to reach their full potential, Hanifin is the future of our blueline, and IMO, the heir apparent to Gio. Nylander would be the 4th best winger on the team behind JG, MT and EL.

And he wants to get paid much more than any of the wingers listed. If the Flames make a trade it will be to free up cap space, or for a number 1 goalie. Not just the hottest name on the trade block.

[GioforPM]

Tkachuk's contract negotiation is going to be tough enough without paying Nylander $7M plus. Chucky and his dad would want more than Nylander, and they'd be right.

[killer_carlson]

One of my favourite parts of this nylander debacle is Mark Hunter.

I'm sure Dubas is really appreciating Hunter lobbing interview after interview about how great Nylander is.

[kehatch]

The only way this works for Calgary is if Neal is part of the package, and I don't see that happening.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I just don't see where Nylander would fit on this team as it currently is. I'd rather trade assets for stronger goaltending.

[David Struch]

Some people think there may be a 5 million x 3 year deal on the table.