2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I think Kris Russell gets a rough ride here. He’s not big, but was pretty good at getting position, decent stick, definitely fearless at blocking shots, decent at moving the puck...and could never win a puck battle, ever.

fyp.

Russell is awful in his own zone, and not very good in the offensive zone. He makes a good first pass and is decent at transitioning the puck out of his own zone - but when you can't help your team recover the puck in your own zone, it's pretty damn hard to be an effective breakout player.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don’t think Russell has good defensive instincts at all. He makes up for some of that with his fearless play and hard work but often he’s simply making up for his own gaffes

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I think Kris Russell gets a rough ride here. He’s not big, but was pretty good at getting position, decent stick, definitely fearless at blocking shots, decent at moving the puck.

His points per game career wise, and in his best year is pretty similar to Hamonic.

His teammates loved him. He was a big part of the team that made the playoffs in 14-15.

Hamonic wasn’t so impressive last year. Maybe someone can elaborate on what is great about Hamonic.

He struggled the first half, no question. Once he settled in though he was very good and it would have been a lot better for him without carrying the boat anchor that Brodie turned into.....seriously Brodie was the worst Dman on the team the last 30-35 games. Whoever was his partner was going to suffer.

Hamonic will be fine moving forward. He is a top notch PKer and hopefully they get Brodie/replacement sorted and Hamonic gets back to adding a bit of offense which he has done in the past.

I will take last seasons TH over last years Brodie everyday of the week.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Russell had his warts but to me Russell was a great skater who was able to use this ability to get into shooting lanes and also take away passes. I saw him give separation with an opponent and 'goad' the other team into passing to his mark. Russell would then use his skating ability to close that pass off. He did that a lot.

I'm not challenging the areas where he struggles but he had some good defensive qualities - you had to look closely for them - but they were there.

[DeluxeMoustache]

You know what? If you look at the basic stats - hits, giveaways and takeaways, blocked shots, shots, team GF, team GA, these kinds of things, Hamonic kind of matches the eye test for me, a middle of the road top 4 defenseman, not too physical, doesn’t drive offense, does not really stand out in any way.

A few things that did pop out include that Gio is unique in the league in terms of doing everything, also in the ratio of giveaways vs takeaways. Only a handful of D with more takeaways than giveaways, which is to be expected.

Everyone knows Russell blocks more shots than anyone, but I suspect few people would expect that Russell hits more than Hamonic. Not a ton of takeaways, but he is more likely to effect the possession change by sacrificing the body and hoping a teammate jumps on it.

Brodie rarely hits, as we know, and was 15th in the league for D for takeaways. Frankly I think that is a reason he and Gio paired so well and where I think Dougie benefits from Gio when people talk about his possession driving stats.

If you look at the D with 40 takeaways or more, by the way, that is the top 25 D in the league, and frankly, a lot of these guys are very, very good players.

I don’t know. I think Gulutzan really screwed this team’s game up, they have strengths that were not leveraged, and they were a mess. The fundamentals are still there, and I think if Peters can coach effectively, team performance should return closer to its potential.

Fingers crossed, these guys’ games can return collectively to where they should be.

Out of the top 4, I see Hamonic as most tradable but would not mind seeing if Peters can coach his way out of their funk.

[circle]

I agree with the sentiment that Hamonic was pretty shaky to start the season but after 25 games or so, I think he played okay for a top 4 shut-down defenceman considering how badly Brodie played for the majority of the season.

In his own end, I really liked his ability to clear the net in front of our goalies and he was strong in the corners and in those 50-50 puck battles. From what I remember, Hamonic had a tough time adjusting to Gulutzan's system of breaking the puck out of the zone and hopefully Peters' is able to implement a system that isn't so predictable where we would fire the puck down the boards and hope a winger was there to pick it up. In terms of offence, I think with the Hamonic and Brodie pairing together, it seemed like Hamonic was tentative in moving the puck up and played a more passive offensive game trying to cover for Brodie and I wonder if these 2 can be a more cohesive pair under Peters.

As for Russell, I like him as a 5-6D but that 4x4 contract is just not worth it for what he brings to the table. He is an elite shot-blocker but has a really tough time in his own zone whenever there is a battle for the puck. As a defenceman that doesn't put up big numbers in the stats department, you have to be able to hold your own in the defensive end and Russell doesn't quite do that for me if he is going up against top 6 forwards.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

In the best year of Brodie's career, Dougie Hamilton was on the team.

Granted, Hamilton has his own issues because he was the guy without an especially capable partner (I consider Russell = Hamonic personally, regardless of what the size aesthetic makes it seem like) but I still see our big 3 D as being Brodie, Giordano, and Hamilton. They're not mutually incompatible.

umm... I think your math is a bit off

What are you watching that makes you think Russel is equal to Hamonic?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Cortez

umm... I think your math is a bit off

What are you watching that makes you think Russel is equal to Hamonic?

He meant in personality.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Yoho

He meant in personality.

Perhaps he meant in salary.

[Bingo]

So I don't have to reply to everybody ...

Value - I don't think this is pressing. It's an option. If they keep him they choose to keep him. If they deal him it's not as a damaged asset or a player demanding a trade so they'll get value or they won't move him. To assume a fleecing is silly because they're not in that situation.

Stats - People that discount underlying stats and look at things like +/- just aren't going deep enough. You're the GM that gets pantsed to be honest. You don't have to agree with the numbers, I do think players can have years where they look better than they are. But this isn't a one season thing. This is an elite pair with amazing numbers, and splits that suggest one isn't carrying the other.

The best way to look at it is players near Hamilton in various stats.

Corsi For:
Dougie Hamilton
Mark Giordano
Brent Burns
Roman Josi
Justin Faulk
Duncan Keith
Noah Hanifin
Zach Werenski
Mattias Ekholm
Seth Jones

How many of those players do you hate? How many fakers in there?

Corsi Against:
Mark Giordano
Dougie Hamilton
Noah Hanifin
Justin Faulk
Jaccob Slavin
Kris Letang
Mattias Ekholm
Seth Jones
Brent Burns
Zach Werenski

Once again ... bunch of hammer heads

CF%
Mark Giordano
Dougie Hamilton
Noah Hanifin
Justin Faulk
Jaccob Slavin
Kris Letang
Mattias Ekholm
Seth Jones
Brent Burns
Zach Werenski

Scoring Chances For
Anton Stralman
Victor Hedman
Matt Dumba
Drew Doughty
Aaron Ekblad
Darnell Nurse
Josh Manson
Jake Gardiner
Keith Yandle
Roman Josi

Hamilton 18th, Giordano 33rd

Scoring Chances Against
Josh Manson
Shayne Gostisbehere
Jordie Benn
Derek Forbort
Brandon Montour
Dustin Byfuglien
Alec Martinez
Roman Josi
John Klingberg
Brayden McNabb

More of a list of defensive D, most of the big producer missing, Hamilton 46th

Scoring Chance Splits
Mark Giordano
Noah Hanifin
Dougie Hamilton
Kris Letang
Brian Dumoulin
Zdeno Chara
Esa Lindell
Anton Stralman
John Klingberg
Jaccob Slavin

High Danger Events For
Dougie Hamilton
Mark Giordano
Brent Burns
John Klingberg
Kris Letang
Brady Skjei
Darnell Nurse
Jaccob Slavin
Ryan Suter
Esa Lindell

High Danger Events Against
Dan Hamhuis
Shayne Gostisbehere
Dustin Byfuglien
Josh Morrissey
Ryan Suter
Jordie Benn
Nate Schmidt
Mark Giordano
Jonas Brodin
Dougie Hamilton

High Danger Differentials
Mark Giordano
Dougie Hamilton
Ryan Suter
John Klingberg
Esa Lindell
Anton Stralman
Dan Hamhuis
Jaccob Slavin
Jeff Petry
Noah Hanifin

I don't think anyone with a straight face can deny the guy is doing a hell of a lot right when he shows up on all those lists and in the company he keeps. The guy is young, shoots right, is 6'5", produces, takes on the best players in the league with tough minutes and also shows up in almost all behind the scenes measures.

Give it up people.

[Toonage]

https://flamesnation.ca/2018/05/09/w...or-the-flames/

Related reading

[savardandjokinen]

I don’t think Kris Russell is a great player, but between 2013-15 he was pretty good, don’t get the whole hate. He had his struggles but he was also decent at one point. That said, I’m glad he’s an Oiler cause he’s not very good and that fits their standard

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think anyone with a straight face can deny the guy is doing a hell of a lot right when he shows up on all those lists and in the company he keeps. The guy is young, shoots right, is 6'5", produces, takes on the best players in the league with tough minutes and also shows up in almost all behind the scenes measures.

Give it up people.

I'm not sure if I'm grouped into this "give it up people" but I'll assume I am since I'm all for exploring what we can get if over payment is a possibility.

With that being said, once again all the stats you've pointed out don't lie we know hes that good. He may not get traded and that's fine, we'll clearly be fine with him still on the team he was our best producer from the back end this year.

However say the Flames do end up flipping Dougie (hypothetically), what then?

Based on all the "smoke" in the media coupled with Brad's comments at the end of the season, I think we'll be surprised to see a few beloved Flames not around next season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I'm not sure if I'm grouped into this "give it up people" but I'll assume I am since I'm all for exploring what we can get if over payment is a possibility.

With that being said, once again all the stats you've pointed out don't lie we know hes that good. He may not get traded and that's fine, we'll clearly be fine with him still on the team he was our best producer from the back end this year.

However say the Flames do end up flipping Dougie (hypothetically), what then?

Based on all the "smoke" in the media coupled with Brad's comments at the end of the season, I think we'll be surprised to see a few beloved Flames not around next season.

Not at all.

I see trading him as a possibility if the offer is suitable.

It's the group trying to find a way to use eye tests or PK minutes or the like to discredit a player that is clearly getting it done.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That's right because of "Character" and "Grit"...I honestly hope that Treliving is smarter than thinking that Hamilton not hitting enough, or showing enough "heart" is the source of this team's problems this year. Scoring goals, and our PP were our biggest issues, both areas that Hamilton helps not hurts.

You've completely misapprehended the concerns about Hamilton. It's not about grit or hitting. It's about being unreliable defensively (which has nothing to do with grit - this isn't 1998 anymore). It's about not playing as hard without the puck as with it - a problem that runs deep in the Flames core.

The character part is about being high-maintenance. The need to bring in his brother to babysit him. Taking undisciplined penalties. Turning down the opportunity to play for Canada two years ago and then not invited this year - seriously, why is the fact Hamilton wasn't even invited to the WC this year not a concern around here?

I know fans believe what they want to believe. But I'm not going to just handwave away the repeated concerns expressed by those close to the team, including Flames management themselves, that there's something wrong with the core, and the problem isn't skill.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You've completely misapprehended the concerns about Hamilton. It's not about grit or hitting. It's about being unreliable defensively (which has nothing to do with grit - this isn't 1998 anymore). It's about not playing as hard without the puck as with it - a problem that runs deep in the Flames core.

The character part is about being high-maintenance. The need to bring in his brother to babysit him. Taking undisciplined penalties. Turning down the opportunity to play for Canada two years ago and then not invited this year - seriously, why is the fact Hamilton wasn't even invited to the WC this year not a concern around here?

I know fans believe what they want to believe. But I'm not going to just handwave away the repeated concerns expressed by those close to the team, including Flames management themselves, that there's something wrong with the core, and the problem isn't skill.

You're speculating about a 24 year old's character.

You claim he doesn't do this or doesn't do that but have no actual proof to back up the claim. He takes undisciplined penalties? He was 23! Unreliable defensively? That's a flat out incorrect assessment. The brother stuff is pure speculation, and you have no idea how Freddie went over in the dressing room. When Gully did his stick tossing shenanigans - was he calling out Dougie? No, he clearly focused in on some of the veterans.

Bingo's post shows just how positive of an impact the player has on the ice for the team. His pairing with Gio was THE bright spot for the team. It's the undeniably elite part of the team.

So the season went sour...and instead of truly looking why, you're associating all the negativity around the team to the part of the team that actually worked...there's no logic to be found there. Hamilton, even with all your speculated issues, overwhelmingly helped our team WIN hockey games this season. That's what it's all about.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I know fans believe what they want to believe. But I'm not going to just handwave away the repeated concerns expressed by those close to the team, including Flames management themselves, that there's something wrong with the core, and the problem isn't skill.

I missed flames management ripping into the core, specifically calling out dougie. What did they say?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Toonage

https://flamesnation.ca/2018/05/09/w...or-the-flames/

Related reading

Strange article.

Goes on about how Brodie has been getting worse and worse, and then suggests moving him up to top pairing with Gio will solve all problems (cause it worked 3 years ago) and allow Calgary to deal Hamilton without a lot of worry.

then there is this line...

Giordano finished with a gaudy .79 points-per-game average despite losing 21 contests to injury at the end of the season

Suggesting that because he missed games his ppg was lower than it would have been?

What?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I missed flames management ripping into the core, specifically calling out dougie. What did they say?

BT didn't "rip" the core so to speak, but he made it very clear that the players were as much, or more, to blame for last seasons results as the coaching staff and certainly inferred that there would be changes.

Changes can include guys like Hamiltion as I would suggest the ONLY players that arent part of his statement are Gaudreau, Giordano and Tkachuk...period.

Again...people are kidding themselves if they think BT is coming back with the same roster minus UFA's next season. He will make a major move cause he has to.

[CalgaryFan1988]

I too would love to hear what Flames management has said about Hamilton. Since they never said a goddamn thing, would be nice to read some more made up stuff.

Also, the rumors about his brother was something created by "fans".

These "fans" are probably the same ones that daddy bought them a car for their 16th birthday and they bitched it wasn't nice enough.