Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Fan in Exile]

I'm just wondering...can we now conclude that signing Glass and leaving Jankowski in the minors to start the year while playing Bennett into a major slump at centre that made many think he was becoming a bust was dumb? Can we now conclude that signing Lack and not giving Rittich a shot was dumb? Was picking GG as head coach any smarter than signing Dallas Eakins?

I mean at what point are we allowed to call a spade a spade? I'll concede that Treliving has made a lot of good moves too but are we allowed to mention his mistakes yet? If not, when?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I'm just wondering...can we now conclude that signing Glass and leaving Jankowski in the minors to start the year while playing Bennett into a major slump at centre that made many think he was becoming a bust was dumb? Can we now conclude that signing Lack and not giving Rittich a shot was dumb? Was picking GG as head coach any smarter than signing Dallas Eakins?

I mean at what point are we allowed to call a spade a spade? I'll concede that Treliving has made a lot of good moves too but are we allowed to mention his mistakes yet? If not, when?

Letting Hathaway toil in the minors. Dressing Bart over Brett. Lots of questionable smaller roster moves that, when put together, have almost certainly resulted in more losses than would otherwise have happened.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

They aren't having a bad season. They're one point out of a playoff spot with 44 games to play.

Talk to me after we have a few more games of the five best offensive players on the team playing on the #1PP unit and tell me how you feel.

I guess when the franchise is a continued failure, have a 25% chance of playoffs half way through the year isn’t considered a bad year!

We should be praising the greatness of the Flames.

If the Flames miss the playoffs this year they are in real trouble .

The dome is already 10% empty almost every night, and people can’t even sell tickets at a loss.

Coupled with the arena fiasco and we are quickly becoming a joke

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

What are you talking about only a 3 year window? The core isn't even in their prime years.

25 to 31 is considered prime years for forwards with the average first line players peaking at the age of 27.

Defensmen tend to peak at the age of 28-29

Goalies seem to have no correlation to age as the seem to stay within 90% of their peak bit the census in studies seem to be the ages between 28 and 30.

Flames have still have some time to get the core sorted out .

Are Frolik (29) and Backlund (28) playing to the same level they were last year?

Brouwer play declined a lot when he hit 30.

Versteeg was on a PTO at age 29.

The last year Stajan was better than a 4th liner was when he was 30 and got a 4 year extension,

Maybe there are some forwards that have prime years after age 29 but the Flames sample says otherwise.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I'm just wondering...can we now conclude that signing Glass and leaving Jankowski in the minors to start the year while playing Bennett into a major slump at centre that made many think he was becoming a bust was dumb? Can we now conclude that signing Lack and not giving Rittich a shot was dumb? Was picking GG as head coach any smarter than signing Dallas Eakins?

I mean at what point are we allowed to call a spade a spade? I'll concede that Treliving has made a lot of good moves too but are we allowed to mention his mistakes yet? If not, when?

Glass, Hathaway, Bennett, Jankowski, Bartkowski, Kulak, lack, Rittich are all examples of the team not really knowing how to handle roster decisions.

Stajan and Brouwer still getting ice time night in and night out, is just another example.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Ignoring his salary I think Brouwer has been fine on the 4th line
Moreover I continue to be puzzled as to why fans focus so much on the depth players while largely giving the top line a pass
Lack of production from the top line is the number one reason for the recent record. Easier to blame Stajan but you win and lose on the backs of your top guys
Johnny had the game on his stick a couple times last night and didn’t deliver. But people seem to have a real problem pointing the finger in his direction

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Ignoring his salary I think Brouwer has been fine on the 4th line
Moreover I continue to be puzzled as to why fans focus so much on the depth players while largely giving the top line a pass
Lack of production from the top line is the number one reason for the recent record. Easier to blame Stajan but you win and lose on the backs of your top guys
Johnny had the game on his stick a couple times last night and didn’t deliver. But people seem to have a real problem pointing the finger in his direction

Yes, it's no coincidence that this team was winning a lot when Johnny and Mony were red hot, even though the rest of the team was struggling.

It's an old Sutter/Hartley/every coach quote. "Your best players have to be your best players."

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Ignoring his salary I think Brouwer has been fine on the 4th line
Moreover I continue to be puzzled as to why fans focus so much on the depth players while largely giving the top line a pass
Lack of production from the top line is the number one reason for the recent record. Easier to blame Stajan but you win and lose on the backs of your top guys
Johnny had the game on his stick a couple times last night and didn’t deliver. But people seem to have a real problem pointing the finger in his direction

Completely agree with your point on Gaudreau, he's be a problem. (It's moreso Monahan the issue on that line though).

Re: Brouwer, he simply hasn't been "fine" contract or not. He's not an NHL player by almost any metric. He's below replacement level. The fact that he's totally secure on the roster is probably another negative of him because of lack of accountability. Getting anyone in there who's at least 25% faster than Brouwer would be a significant improvement to that line.

And frankly, in today's NHL every single line needs to be able to carry water. In the game against St. Louis I believe their 4th liners were murdering our 4th line. Created momentum and gave the other players, especially, D a needed rest.

[Strange Brew]

Yeah Brouwer is not fine. We could put Gaudreau on the 3rd like and he would be the best 3rd liner in the league. Does that mean he is not a problem? Brouwer was not signed to be a 4th liner and the fact he is barely serviceable in that capacity is not ok.

I understand wanting to hold Gaudreau and Monahan accountable for the teams struggles. But that is giving the defense a free pass. And Gaudreau has the 45th highest cap hit in the league. This team is not built for he and Monahan to win games by themselves. Now there is no doubt those two need to be more consistent but I’m not of the belief they are super elite, Hart trophy type players. This team needs to win from the back end out.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Ignoring his salary I think Brouwer has been fine on the 4th line
Moreover I continue to be puzzled as to why fans focus so much on the depth players while largely giving the top line a pass
Lack of production from the top line is the number one reason for the recent record. Easier to blame Stajan but you win and lose on the backs of your top guys
Johnny had the game on his stick a couple times last night and didn’t deliver. But people seem to have a real problem pointing the finger in his direction

So do you blame the top guys on Nashville for their slow start to the season? Because their top two forwards are not nearly as effective as Gaudreau or Monahan.

Do you think that the Devils slow first half is because of their top guys not scoring and producing? Because Monahan and Gaudreau have more points than their top two guys.

How convenient for this poorly contructed and poorly coached team that they only way they can win is if 2 guys perform.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Completely agree with your point on Gaudreau, he's be a problem. (It's moreso Monahan the issue on that line though).

Re: Brouwer, he simply hasn't been "fine" contract or not. He's not an NHL player by almost any metric. He's below replacement level. The fact that he's totally secure on the roster is probably another negative of him because of lack of accountability. Getting anyone in there who's at least 25% faster than Brouwer would be a significant improvement to that line.

And frankly, in today's NHL every single line needs to be able to carry water. In the game against St. Louis I believe their 4th liners were murdering our 4th line. Created momentum and gave the other players, especially, D a needed rest.

I admit than my cheeks clench whenever the fourth line is out there. I'm really pleased with the make-up of the 2nd and 3rd lines right now. The Sam/Janko/Hathaway combo seems to be giving teams fits at times.

The fourth line I have very little confidence in and generally don't disagree that seeing a younger, faster version would be interesting. For the most part I thought Lazar was more effective on that line, and that the team really needs his speed in the lineup. Ironically Stajan had one of his better games last night but those effective games are few and far between.

But I also don't think that the Flames' success or failure will be driven by that line. My greater concern indeed is the top line.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So do you blame the top guys on Nashville for their slow start to the season? Because their top two forwards are not nearly as effective as Gaudreau or Monahan.

Do you think that the Devils slow first half is because of their top guys not scoring and producing? Because Monahan and Gaudreau have more points than their top two guys.

How convenient for this poorly contructed and poorly coached team that they only way they can win is if 2 guys perform.

I haven't watched enough of either the Preds or Devils to make that evaluation. Though your inclusion of the Devils is really odd. They are tied for first in their division and have vastly exceeded expectations.

Johnny and Sean had a white hot start and have cooled off substantially. Consistency is the key with top players.

Most teams win or lose on the backs of their top guys. I'm not saying they can ONLY win if those guys are performing, but over a stretch of games, a teams ability to pick up points will largely be based on how their best players are performing.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I haven't watched enough of either the Preds or Devils to make that evaluation. Though your inclusion of the Devils is really odd. They are tied for first in their division and have vastly exceeded expectations.

Johnny and Sean had a white hot start and have cooled off substantially. Consistency is the key with top players.

Most teams win or lose on the backs of their top guys. I'm not saying they can ONLY win if those guys are performing, but over a stretch of games, a teams ability to pick up points will largely be based on how their best players are performing.

Teams can win without their top guys going all the time. The Preds and the Devils (or Columbus, NYR, San Jose) seem to be able to do it. Other teams (like the Flames and the Oilers) are built differently and cannot I guess.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Teams can win without their top guys going all the time. The Preds and the Devils (or Columbus, NYR, San Jose) seem to be able to do it. Other teams (like the Flames and the Oilers) are built differently and cannot I guess.

And the Oilers know they are a top heavy team.

The Flames (In theory) aren't a top heavy team. They are a D heavy team.

And the team doesn't play great D, and can't kill PK's, and have no D that can play on the PP.

[bubbsy]

So.... If this flames team is so dependent on Gaudreau and Monahan that if they struggle the team simply can't win, then do we really want to pay Backlund 2nd line C money???

Here I thought this team had some depth with the 3M line and the progression of Bennett and Jankowski. Seems I was wrong.

This team is only as good and will only go as far as Gaudreau can take them. Is that a fair summary of this edition of the flames?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So.... If this flames team is so dependent on Gaudreau and Monahan that if they struggle the team simply can't win, then do we really want to pay Backlund 2nd line C money???

Here I thought this team had some depth with the 3M line and the progression of Bennett and Jankowski. Seems I was wrong.

This team is only as good and will only go as far as Gaudreau can take them. Is that a fair summary of this edition of the flames?

Seems like specious reasoning of fault because Backlund along with Tkachuk were the Flames best forwards yesterday.

The root of this team's issues are elsewhere.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So.... If this flames team is so dependent on Gaudreau and Monahan that if they struggle the team simply can't win, then do we really want to pay Backlund 2nd line C money???

Here I thought this team had some depth with the 3M line and the progression of Bennett and Jankowski. Seems I was wrong.

This team is only as good and will only go as far as Gaudreau can take them. Is that a fair summary of this edition of the flames?

Nope

They are as good as their D will take them. And right not that’s not very far

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Seems like specious reasoning of fault because Backlund along with Tkachuk were the Flames best forwards yesterday.

The root of this team's issues are elsewhere.

So the players are just fine eh?

Team struggles have nothing to do with what they are doing on the ice then?

Is that about right?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So the players are just fine eh?

Team struggles have nothing to do with what they are doing on the ice then?

Is that about right?

When did I say this?

But Backlund has been as consistent as any 2nd line center in the league, drives possession better than any 2nd line center in the league, his line put up multiple goals last night in a losing effort - I think you are looking at the wrong players for fault.

If the argument is that teams are only as good as their best player, then we may as well blow it up now because as good as Gaudreau can be, he's not McDavid.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Seems like specious reasoning of fault because Backlund along with Tkachuk were the Flames best forwards yesterday.

The root of this team's issues are elsewhere.

I was being a bit facetious, though if our offence and pp is completely dependent on Gaudreau and Monahan, then I think secondary scoring has to be a core fault with this group. As such, perhaps we need to consider upgrading the 2nd line C position rather than giving the one we have a hefty raise.