The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Termination letter drafted and on Tre's desk for signature.

Ha ha ha. Is this your Christmas wish? Have you been a good Manhattanboy this year?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ha ha ha. Is this your Christmas wish? Have you been a good Manhattanboy this year?

Haha it is! Except for a few minor transgressions very!

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

It's not like GG is making humongous mistakes. He's just not realizing that the small little adjustments he CAN make are part of the reason why we don't have about 2/3 more wins in the win column.

1) Get Brodie away from Hamonic. We're over 25% into the season, we can obviously see that they don't mesh well.
2) The 4th line needs less minutes, and those extra minutes should be evenly distributed in the top 9. We're a top 9, bottom 3 forward system (or at least we should be), not a top6/bottom6. Distribute the minutes accordingly.
3) Give players that aren't playing well less minutes. It's going a little with #1, give Brodie/Hamonic less time or different partners. Hamilton has been bad, try putting Him with Hamonic or Kulak, and maybe he finds his game again.

This is exactly it, GG is not putting his players in a position to succeed. He doesn't know how to make his system fit his players. Trading players will not solve the Flames' problem, the players we get will gradually become garbage under GG.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

In the next 15 games (mid-point of the season), if we get less than 15 points (86 or less pace) , i agree - fire him. 15-18 points, very short leash. Beyond that we should be on playoff pace.

You can't judge a coach just on the standings. A good roster will get wins with a bad coach, and a good coach can get wins with a bad roster.

[Kovaz]

Interesting quote from Tortorella.

I’m not a big numbers guy, but I do have one analytic that I look at every game ... is no D-to-D plays. Eighty-eight percent of our plays in the last game against Washington, it was moved right up the ice. That’s really important towards transition.

https://twitter.com/JacketsInsider/s...53491564564480

With how much we seem to rely on D-to-D passes against the forecheck, and how much we struggle to get the puck moving up the ice, it's an interesting contrast between Gulutzan and Tortorella, especially considering their history working together.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I get the notion that "well its easier to fire the coach" but what happens if you bring in a guy and nothing changes?

You fire him. Duh.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I disagree with some of the stuff that I am reading from some posters - not going to quote every one, so just basing my post on some of the previous posts through this thread.

Darryl Sutter - he doesn't need a team full of grit. People forget that as a GM, he actually traded for Tanguay, Huselius, and some others. He has drafted a Russian or two, has drafted a Swedish defencemen that was not known for his gritty play, etc. Yes, he prefers big, talented and gritty skilled players, but so does every other single coach and GM in the league. Sutter traded for Cammalleri, and wanted to re-sign him if not for Cammalleri's high asking price that Sutter balked at. He didn't trade Conroy away, and even traded for him back, and Conroy isn't particularly gritty. He wanted Gaborik signed in LA - enough said? The mix in Calgary would be fine. Would he want to tinker with the lineup a bit? Probably. So would every other coach.

I don't think he would be coming here anyways if Gulutzan was relieved. First, everyone is aware of how things went down when he was let go. Wouldn't surprise me if there were hard feelings. Perhaps there isn't. However, Sutter signed a big dollar deal - not sure what it is exactly, but it is north of 3 million. It expires after this season. As much as I would love them to, I don't see the Flames paying more than 3 million for Sutter, while also paying Gulutzan his salary. No idea how much Gulutzan makes, but 4-5 million dollars sounds like something the Flames would be unwilling to do.

Hope I am wrong though. This team needs a Sutter, Hartley, or other taskmaster that is experienced at both breaking guys down and building guys up, and knowing when to do so. Knowing how to galvanize their team, stick up for their players, take the heat off their players, help get them focused, help them stay loose, etc. Criticize Hartley all you want, but this team has never played harder and better, and were never more than the sum of their parts since the '04 year.

Hartley - someone said that Hartley would never have been able to get Monahan playing effective defence. Well, people forget that Hartley turned Monahan into a defensive specialist for a time when Backlund and Stajan were both hurt. Monahan's production plummeted, so Hartley took Monahan aside and told him that it was important for him to score as well, and that he needs to do both. People forget how much Hartley actually preached defence overall actually, and how few times they got blown out during the worst rebuild year. That's good coaching.

A few posters feel that perhaps the mix on the team is not right, or there isn't enough talent, or something something something... I offer you this questions to think about:

1) Name better 1st lines in hockey than Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland.
2) Name better checking lines in hockey than Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik.
3) Name teams with better goaltending.


There might be an answer or more for each of the above questions, but those lists are short. Are they not?

Let's continue...

Name a better defence. Starting this season, many people had Calgary pegged as the team with the best overall defence. A few teams had a better top 4. At any rate, even it is all arguable. Without argument, Calgary entered this season having ONE of the best defensive corps in the league. Maybe first. Maybe second.... maybe 5 or 6th. Where exactly they ranked isn't too important. What is important is that this team has a stacked defence. An incredibly under-performing defence.

The 4th line - is putrid. They are constantly getting hemmed in their zone. They are a terrible 4th line. For those that want to roll 4 scoring lines, I offer you this line as an example of 'careful what you wish for'. Individually, this SHOULD be a decent depth scoring line. Versteeg? Who really pegs him as a 4th liner? Versteeg is so smart and has enough talent that he can play up and down the lineup anywhere. Stajan is past his prime, but he still has some talent in his game. Brouwer has been a consistent 20 goal guy, and should be excelling when facing other team's fourth lines. The fact of the matter is that this line is neither gritty enough to provide 'energy', and they are not getting anything done in terms of generating offence. Maybe it is the way they are being utilized? Maybe there just needs a chance of personnel? Flames also have 3 more guys that are at worst replacement level in Hamilton, Lazar and Hathaway. The 4th line should NOT be this bad, but here we are.

I saved the 3rd line for last, simply because it has been a relatively short sample size for them. For all the people crapping on Bennett, doubting Jankowski and feeling that Jagr is simply too old to contribute, I offer you this line. We have all seen them playing effectively now for a while, even when they weren't producing. Guess what? They are starting to put up points now. More importantly, they have absolutely been dominating along the boards, and seemingly enjoy prolonged periods of offensive zone time and pressure. They are looking better and better week-to-week as well.

I absolutely LOVE how this team is built. I love how deep it is. I love how different they CAN play this game. Let's analyze it.

First line - dominating and so dangerous on the rush. You have Ferland being able to dig pucks out of the corner, and dig pucks free at the net too.

Second line - they can play rush, or they can play well along the boards as well. They are so good at smothering lines and out-scoring them in a game. These are your unsung playoff heroes that do all the dirty work to win a game, and they are absolutely an elite unit.

The third line is BECOMING an elite line in front of our eyes. An elite line along the boards, and generating a tonne of chances that they are finally starting to capitalize on. They are hemming teams in their own zones, and tiring teams out while doing so. If I was the coach, I would send the Backlund line against the top team, drive possession, and get a faceoff in the offensive zone. Throw out the Monahan line, try to score. Then throw out the Jankowski line and make the other team adapt to having to play along the boards, and if that line has a lengthy zone time advantage, replace them with the Monahan line again and let them work against the tired opposing line, and then finally replacing that line with the Backlund line once the opposing team gets their change and throws out their top line to try and swing momentum the other way. At no time does the 4th line get off my bench until the other lines haven't been doing much, and I feel my team needs a bit of energy.

At any rate, this is the way I see the Flames on paper (and mostly in practice too):

Elite scoring line that is deadly on the rush
Elite checking line that completely nullifies the opposing team's best line
A third line that is becoming elite at cycling the puck and generating off the cycle.
A better than averagely skilled 4th line that should be providing decent depth scoring.
An elite defence.
An above average goalie (that has been elite this season for the most part).

That's a contending team. You also have good replacement level defence in the AHL, some decent forwards that can be called up and slotted-in throughout the lineup as well, even if for just short periods of time.

I think with the right coach, this team could make a heck of a lot of noise. However, this is a team that seems so easily rattled, so easily thrown off their game.. it is hard to make out what the real issue is.

The one thing that is not difficult to see in all of this is that the defence is NOT only looking terrible defensively for the most part, they aren't generating as much offensively either.

For anyone that didn't like Hartley (and I am not saying he was perfect), then you don't want to see Ruff coaching this team. His team is exciting and fun to watch like Hartley's was, as both coaches utilize the same system. I think this is a 'Ruff/Hartley' team considering how mobile this defence is.

However, I also believe that this team is also a 'Sutter' team as well. I don't doubt for an instant that Sutter wouldn't have that first line cheating a bit on offence, and having the defence give them stretch passes. Ferland would be the guy swinging low to help on defence more, especially along the boards. Sutter woudn't neuter that top line.

The checking line? Hah! That's Sutter hockey right there!

Third line? Sounds like a Sutter line, that's for sure. Some poster cited Bennett as not being a 'Sutter-type' of player. If there is a single player in this lineup that is more a Sutter player than Bennett (and that is also not named Ferland) I have no idea who he is. Bennett would be absolutely loved by Sutter. He (and once again, Ferland) are the epitome of 'Sutter hockey'.

I am sure he would figure out how to make that 4th line more effective (or at least, not make it so painfully easy for other teams to exploit).

I do believe that this team has the makings of a really, really solid contender that can play different styles of games depending on who they are facing, and are a difficult team to develop a strategy against.

This team SHOULD be giving opposing coaches fits trying to think of in-game adjustments to try and neutralize the Flames, or try and stop the Flames from neutralizing them. I don't think that Sutter - or any other coach for that matter - would want to tinker too much. I could see them mixing up the lines somewhat to give certain lines a jolt, or to match-up against another line for some reason, etc., but I do think that this lineup is a solid one.

I can see the coach spending a LOT of time on video with the defencemen, and spending a lot of time building them up.

All of the above that I wrote may be garbage, and maybe I know absolutely nothing about hockey and what it takes to be successful. You can quote me on any or all of the above, and tell me that I am a complete idiot. However, I feel the following statement below is above reproach:

This team has way too good of a defensive group, with way too good of a defensive line, with way too good of a goalie to be allowing this many blowouts and goals against.

[Kybb79]

My main concern right now is GG ruining the confidence of some very good players mainly the D?. I hope this doesn't turn into a Eakins situation. Too much talent to be playing like that something is wrong.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

It's not like GG is making humongous mistakes. He's just not realizing that the small little adjustments he CAN make are part of the reason why we don't have about 2/3 more wins in the win column.

1) Get Brodie away from Hamonic. We're over 25% into the season, we can obviously see that they don't mesh well.
2) The 4th line needs less minutes, and those extra minutes should be evenly distributed in the top 9. We're a top 9, bottom 3 forward system (or at least we should be), not a top6/bottom6. Distribute the minutes accordingly.
3) Give players that aren't playing well less minutes. It's going a little with #1, give Brodie/Hamonic less time or different partners. Hamilton has been bad, try putting Him with Hamonic or Kulak, and maybe he finds his game again.

I think he does realize it but either he is trusting his assistant coaches or supports a different philosophy. GG knows he can call timeouts and he also knows where and which players are being played. But for whatever reason he has different ideas about what should bring about the consistency the Flames are lacking. I agree with your suggestion "wins are more important" and experiments and stubborn non/adjustments should be the bare minimum; Because at the end of the day you might not have enough of them to make the playoffs.

^^ This is what I think separates good coaches from coaches who are still learning.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

We have Ferland on the top line, Tkachuk on the second, Bennett on the third, Hathaway on the fourth and Gio on the back end. There's plenty of grit. The coach's system just doesn't value playing gritty.

Same, as noted by Enoch Root, with speed. The coach wants a slow, patient game. The system inherently inhibits our speed.
.

Are you honestly suggesting as analysis that the flames coach wants the team to be slow?

Is that your actual analysis of the coaching system in place?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hamilton is 24. He can still be (and I fully expect he will be) groomed into a great defenseman.

Hamilton doesn't look like a player who is eagerly absorbing everything his coaches tell him and trying to get better every game. Frankly, he looks like a guy who's only interested in hockey when he has the puck on his stick.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Are you honestly suggesting as analysis that the flames coach wants the team to be slow?

Is that your actual analysis of the coaching system in place?

What I am suggesting, Flash, is exactly what I said: Gulutzan's system ######s our team speed. The style he has us playing rarely allows a speed game to be unleashed. I can't say that that is actually what he wants. But at the same time, he didn't want Bennett to be a terrible centre, Brodie a terrible LD or for us to give up 40+ shots once every four games. But all these outcomes still happened under his system anyway.

Now, I realize that your entire schtick is to throw out drive-by posts like this where you imply you are god's gift to all knowledge, and the simple act of you questioning someone inherently means you are right and they are wrong. But, if you disagree, feel free to put some thought behind your reasoning for once.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Hamilton is 24. He can still be (and I fully expect he will be) groomed into a great defenseman.

The problem I have with this statement is, we've been saying this for 2.5 seasons now. He's still making the same mistakes he's made since day 1 one as a Flame. The same bad penalties are still happening at the same rate, the bad pinches are still prevalent, the turnovers are still occurring. I'm not convinced he'll ever be the guy to dethrone Gio as the #1 defenseman on the team, but I will say, he's certainly doing better than the disaster that was his start here and his trade value I would assume would be the highest among all our blue-liners considering the market, his age, his size and his production as a right handed defenseman. I don't think any other defender could bring in a haul like Hamilton could right now.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am sure he would figure out how to make that 4th line more effective (or at least, not make it so painfully easy for other teams to exploit).

I have no doubt Sutter would either get more out of Brouwer or bench him.

[dissentowner]

At this point it would be a blessing if GG was let go just so I don't have to scroll through the endless whining in every thread. GDT? Endless whining. GT? Winning or losing still endless complaining and whining. Every thread in the FOI forum turns into a whine fest about GG, it is so tiresome.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

What I am suggesting, Flash, is exactly what I said: Gulutzan's system ######s our team speed. The style he has us playing rarely allows a speed game to be unleashed. I can't say that that is actually what he wants. But at the same time, he didn't want Bennett to be a terrible centre, Brodie a terrible LD or for us to give up 40+ shots once every four games. But all these outcomes still happened under his system anyway.

Now, I realize that your entire schtick is to throw out drive-by posts like this where you imply you are god's gift to all knowledge, and the simple act of you questioning someone inherently means you are right and they are wrong. But, if you disagree, feel free to put some thought behind your reasoning for once.

I know it's tough when surrounded by all the insults you throw around, but your actual words were that the coach wants "a slow, patient game".

The coach wants the team to play slow are you actual words. The coach wants the team to not play fast in favour of playing slow. That is the meaning those words convey.

Which is ####ing stupid. There isn't a coach at any level of hockey that wants their team to be slow.

[Classic_Sniper]

For everyone here that wants Gulutzan fired, has anyone thought of the potential for everything to go off the tracks? It took time for this team to adjust to the new system, so having to re-adjust to another system in between games could be disastrous.

Also, what happens if the turnovers, bad penalties, poor special teams and the lack of scoring depth continues as well? Then what? It's not like all of these issues were Gulutzan related. It seems like everyone wants GG gone because the team is supposedly not reaching its supposed "potential." Well, I remember hearing similar things in 15-16 when the team acquired Hamilton and we were suppose to be dominant. Then we missed the playoffs and Hartley was canned and now here we are in a similar situation.

Does Treliving sit on the hot seat then? Do we start trading off assets and start another rebuild? It just seems to me at the very least, that firing a coach mid-season and hoping on a prayer that the next guy will be magically better isn't exactly a levelheaded decision. We're in the thick of a playoff race and it just seems more likely that havoc would ensue if we create needless instability?

[kevman]

Man, when did Flash Walken become the voice of reason? This place has gone bat #### crazy over the last few weeks. Next thing you know I'm going to start agreeing with Tinordi...

[mikephoen]

Ok, I'm desperate for a poll now!

Is this a very vocal minority that wants GG fired? Or is it now a very vocal minority that wants to stick things out? Are we at 50/50?

Come on mods, give us a poll!

Heck we probably need a poll before tonights game, and another tomorrow morning, just to see what sort of swing a single game has on the results! Let's get some science on this situation!

[IgiTang]

GG has a system other than transition? I dont see it