The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[calgaryblood]

I'm now aboard the fire Gulutzan train after being a Gulutzan defender for too long. His lineup usage tonight was embarrassing. TOOT TOOT!

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

First, thanks for the insight into the 2004 team.

If what you say is true -- and I have no reason to believe otherwise -- then I think that the core of my argument remains intact, which is that I don't think Sutter is very good at adjusting his system. Of course, that's a drawback of Gulutzan as well, and so for that reason, I feel like it'd be a lateral move if not a downgrade, seeing as how Sutter has coached recently. I'd also hesitate before blaming Gulutzan for the special teams, as well as the defenders he has at his disposal, as I feel those two things are more on Cameron and Treliving/Jerrard more than Gulutzan.

Obviously, as head coach, Gulutzan has to be invested into on-ice deployment decisions (an area where he and I don't always agree) but if anything I've disagreed with some of Sutter's recent personnel decisions even more. Dustin Brown on the fourth line never really made sense, in my opinion, and keeping Gaborik with Kopitar for as long as he did was nonsensical. A lot of the Kings' shortcomings also rest on Lombardi too, though.

Sutter takes the rag tag flames to the final before the salary cap and then a decade later he leads the Kings to two cups. Two, not one. Then you go on to say that he can't adjust his system? Every coach wears out their welcome at some point.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by shogged

Is it really a "good system" if it takes 40 games to learn every year?

Anyone whole-heartedly supporting the current head coach really should be able to answer this.

The reason 'psyching yourself out' and 'overthinking the play' and 'being inside your own head' and 'gripping your stick too tight' are things said in elite sports is because doing these things negatively impacts both confidence and performance.

If you employ a system apparently so counter-intuitive that an entire squad of NHL level players (many of whom do not lack in hockey IQ) have to regularly re-learn how to make it work then it belongs in an artificial intelligence competition between supercomputers and not in a competition that is routinely won on human emotion and instinct.

As with many other disciplines something that is brilliant hockey theory may be disastrous hockey practice.

There is absolutely such a thing as outsmarting yourself. And Glen is known as a super-smart coaching theorist.

And the job is not getting done on the ice.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

But has the game really changed much since 2014?

The Scorp answered that question earlier in a post of his own.

You can't really be telling me if Treliving fired GG tomorrow and hired Sutter you would be mad?

If a new coach was brought in now you would need some time for the players to adjust and learn a new system. I don't think the team can afford to do that with all the parity in the game now. Best time for any change is in the off season.

As for Sutter, he's sitting at home without a job. Better question, why isn't he coaching now or more importantly, why didn't someone hire him in the off season. To me that says something.

[Mike F]

I've been a strong critic of Gulutzen's since early on in his tenure, and made many long posts detailing my issues last season. However, I never actually called for him to be fired until Julien came available; a seasoned coach with a history of winning. Lo and behold, Julien has the Habs off to an even worse start than the Flames. So WTF do I know ?

Coaching seems to be one of those mercurial things, where it's incredibly hard for professionals, let alone casual fans, to know how a coach will work for a team, or even how much credit to give them when a team is winning / blame to put on them when the team is losing.

My personal eyeball test has rarely liked the way the Flames have played under Gulutzen, and outside of a few partial games I don't like the way they're playing now. And some line-up decisions and ice-time allocations boggle my mind. But how much of the team's struggles are coaching vs. roster problems vs. player problems. . . . I really don't know.

Something needs to change, though. Gulutzen has gone to the whip 3 times already this season (including preseason) and the players haven't responded. No reason to think that the status quo will magically right itself.

[home_sweet_dome]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

This thread was created in response to maybe... two or three straight disappointing games from the Flames? Sample size is key here.

What a joke, GG has a 97 game sample size as head coach of the Flames and 2 seasons as head coach of the Stars.

Each season his teams have underperformed relative to the expectations based on the talent level on them.

Good coaches have their teams outperform expectations, ie. achieve a greater sum than the collection of parts.

Bad coaches have their teams underperform expectations, ie. achieve a lesser sum than the collection of parts.

There is a 227 game sample size of GG being a bad NHL coach. Deal with it.

[Erick Estrada]

I can't wait for his presser tomorrow where he tells us all how mad he is. How surprised and disappointed he is that the team didn't respond. Like rotating the same four players in and out of the lineup is supposed to strike fear into a roster of players that don't play like they are worried about repercussions. What is he going to do? Tell the players at practice he's mad and then proceed to take Glass and Bartkowski out and put Lazar and Kulak are back in as the consequences? Bold moves.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

But has the game really changed much since 2014?

Ironically the game changed because of Sutter, as the Kings became the poster childs for corsi-ing your way to the cup. Every green coach from Bill Peters to Glen Gulutzan runs some variation on what Sutter was doing in L.A., which to some extent Sutter ripped off Babcock's Red Wings besides his own systems before then.

Problem is when everyone is doing something, it becomes normal. The first change over the last decade is that teams employ way fewer scrubs at the bottom of their lineup - fewer Bartkowskis and more Schlemkos, basically. Which in turn has led to all teams now being closer to the median when it comes to puck possession, which in turn means Sutter Style puck possession dominance is less possible. Beyond that from a coaching perspective Sutter's style has become the new left wing lock and the counter to it seems to be instinctive to most teams these days because you see the breakouts every night.

I think that's why Ottawa is suddenly a good team. They might be the only team with the skill and depth to play a possession game who elect to play a counterpunch game instead. There's a difference between not having the skill to possess the puck, and not having the will to.

I'm not saying puck possession is unimportant - it still results in the best overwhelming wins - but I do think Sutter is watching carefully to see if his systems from the Kings era ran their course. The game is always evolving.

All that said Sutter in a playoff game would coach circles around Gully. Full on ray traced spheres, actually. Sutter is a playoff adjustments mastermind while fast-acting Gulutzan could be tactically outwitted by a 7 year old putting pegs into his/her Battleship Game.

[nik-]

I'm fine with losing Gulatzan, but I really think this is more of a team problem. We needed Bennett to hit as a 1A/1B centre for this rebuild to put us in contender territory. I feel that we needed Bennett/Tkachuk and Monahan/Gaudreau to form two legit, almost interchangable offensive threat lines.

I still think Tkachuk is going to get there, but overall we just don't have the horses. Right now we have some really good players, but we're lacking the great players that are needed in this league.

[zamler]

I thanked your post just because you were able to contextually put ray tracing in there.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Sutter takes the rag tag flames to the final before the salary cap and then a decade later he leads the Kings to two cups. Two, not one. Then you go on to say that he can't adjust his system? Every coach wears out their welcome at some point.

His teams were big and played a physical style of game that wore down it's opponents into making mistakes where his team capitalised on them. Both with the Flames and then the Kings. Sutter gained his fame (righfully so) for the way his teams played and had the respect of his players. Winning can do that for a coach.

Dispite all the above he's sitting at home without a coaching job. You would think a coach of his credibility would be in high demand and teams would have done what it took to hire him. Maybe someone could answer that for me.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by nik-

I still think Tkachuk is going to get there, but overall we just don't have the horses. Right now we have some really good players, but we're lacking the great players that are needed in this league.

There are a number of teams that have had recently success without a true star player, for example Rangers, Blue Jackets, Preds, and Blues.

The Flames have similar depth and skill to these teams, and the clear difference is in the coaching - Hitchcock, Vigneault, Laviolett, and Tortorella.

GG needs to go... the only question is who would be a suitable replacement?

[blender]

I don't think there will be a panic move from this organization until the 20 game mark at least.
Treliving is patient

[Calgary4LIfe]

Darryl Sutter can't adjust? I don't think there are many coaches who are better at in-game adjustments than Sutter.

He is a GREAT coach at these things:

1) Motivation
2) In-game adjustments
3) Creating a system that fits the team
4) Deflecting criticism of the players towards himself in the media

He may or may not be the right coach for this team, but to say he is unable to make adjustments and so on is just completely wrong. There are few coaches who are better.

As for why he isn't coaching right now, my best guess is probably for two reasons. First, he already won a couple of cups, and location coupled with a chance at winning sooner rather than later are probably high on his list. Secondly, IIRC, he is still being generously paid by LA, correct? A team would have to at least match that amount to make it attractive for him. If I am right, by taking another head coaching position somewhere else would nullify his existing contract with LA. Why would he do that? He is not a coach that would jump at any opportunity - as an experienced coach he has seen a lot of coaches come and go by jumping at any chance, and ending up trying to coach terrible teams. Take a few too many of those on, and you find yourself on the outside looking in.

Outside of Darryl Sutter, I can't think of any coaches available right now that I would feel confident in. I don't think Gulutzan is on the hot seat yet - still too early, and I bet he will get some rope this season. I don't see the point of it for now. I can't say that Gulutzan is inspiring me with confidence, and I can't say that the Flames are entertaining me either even on nights when they win, but I also do not think he is deserving of getting fired. If it continues and this team goes on a downward roll, I would expect Treliving to quickly pull the plug, but I do think that Gulutzan has until the mid-point of the season to turn this team around. Flames have to have a completely awful record for him to be turfed so soon.

One thing that is undeniable is that he no longer has the afforded luxury of being new to the team and trying to implement a new system, and the Flames being in the midst of an arena negotiation probably adds to the pressure here (public support might be better for a 'winner' vs a 'loser'), but it is still too early to think about pulling the plug.

The only coach that I think would be a clear upgrade at this point would be Darryl, and I am not sure he would even be interested in coming back here. Maybe I can't think of some names at the moment, but I just don't see the point now.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The only coach that I think would be a clear upgrade at this point would be Darryl,

Actually, I think the best fit would be Lindy Ruff.

Plenty of guys would be clear upgrades though. Anyone with the testicles to play a 22 year old over a 32 year old.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

First, thanks for the insight into the 2004 team.

If what you say is true -- and I have no reason to believe otherwise -- then I think that the core of my argument remains intact, which is that I don't think Sutter is very good at adjusting his system. Of course, that's a drawback of Gulutzan as well, and so for that reason, I feel like it'd be a lateral move if not a downgrade, seeing as how Sutter has coached recently. I'd also hesitate before blaming Gulutzan for the special teams, as well as the defenders he has at his disposal, as I feel those two things are more on Cameron and Treliving/Jerrard more than Gulutzan.

Obviously, as head coach, Gulutzan has to be invested into on-ice deployment decisions (an area where he and I don't always agree) but if anything I've disagreed with some of Sutter's recent personnel decisions even more. Dustin Brown on the fourth line never really made sense, in my opinion, and keeping Gaborik with Kopitar for as long as he did was nonsensical. A lot of the Kings' shortcomings also rest on Lombardi too, though.

I guess the really difference is Sutter could get the most out of his players. You rarely saw his teams take nights off and they played a very composed and dominating style of hockey. He may have a short window as a coach but players absolutely bought into his agenda. The were physical and played with a snarly unshakable identity.

[Joborule]

The longer Treliving holds out for GG to try to right the ship and has the team producing and winning more often than not, the more this team is gonna set themselves back further and further in points, and keep accumulating more losses than wins. This is back to back seasons now that the team has looked incredibly sloppy, and don't have any excuse to be so considering how the lineup looks. The only difference is they got incredible goaltending. If they didn't have it, Flames very well could be winless right now.

I have no confidence in Gulutzan, and think that he's more of a hinderance on Flames success, than a contributor. I hope that Treliving has a very short timeline how GG to have this team playing much better before relieving him of his duties. We can't expect to dig a deep hole back-to-back seasons, and try to scratch and claw for another wild card spot. These are the years that this roster needs to start make noise, and play hockey in May. We can't waste the contracts that are on fair deals for this franchise right now.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

What a joke, GG has a 97 game sample size as head coach of the Flames and 2 seasons as head coach of the Stars.



Each season his teams have underperformed relative to the expectations based on the talent level on them.



Good coaches have their teams outperform expectations, ie. achieve a greater sum than the collection of parts.



Bad coaches have their teams underperform expectations, ie. achieve a lesser sum than the collection of parts.



There is a 227 game sample size of GG being a bad NHL coach. Deal with it.

Absolutely. The guy has almost 3 full seasons of being a head coach and has achieved absolutely nothing. 1 playoff series where he was swept. He can’t hack it.

[Kybb79]

GG is a joke!! His expression on the bench says it all.I don't get why the GG supporters question a legend like Darryl?He makes GG look like a rookie lol

[robaur]

So I just got an infraction for calling Scorpion a "little boy". Yeah...that's such an insult brah.

What a joke. Even for the "PG" rating of CP.

Mods are as unpredictable/inconsistent as NHL refs.

Now I expect to get an infraction for this post for the disclosure.