Does Iggy make the Top 100 Greatest NHL Players list?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think Iggy belongs in the top 100 as well, but I would prefer if this thread consisted of arguments for who should not be on the list in his favour rather than a bunch of incredulous posters who can't believe Iggy didn't make it.

Who doesn't make the list and why?

If Iginla doesn't make the list, then why does...

...Sundin make it? Slightly more, points, yeah, but he also played a lot in the early '90s, while Iginla played much of his career in the dead puck era. No Stanley Cup, was the captain of a Canadian team, won Olympic gold (once), HHOF, the freaking Mark Messier Leadership award, two end-of-season NHL all-star team selections (2 second).

Meanwhile, Iginla: fewer points in a tougher era, no Stanley Cup, was the captain of a Canadian team, won Olympic gold (twice), future HHOF, the Lester B. Pearson trophy, an Art Ross, two Rocket Richards, the King Clancy, the freaking Mark Messier Leadership award, four end-of-season NHL all-star team selections (3 first, 1 second)

Is it because Mats played in Toronto? Probably. But it's still stupid.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think Iggy belongs in the top 100 as well, but I would prefer if this thread consisted of arguments for who should not be on the list in his favour rather than a bunch of incredulous posters who can't believe Iggy didn't make it.

Who doesn't make the list and why?

Ok. But you go first.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ok. But you go first.

Gartner seems like the likeliest to replace with Iginla.

Less personal accolades, less playoff success but more consistently in the playoffs.

Sundin as well but being perhaps the second best swedish player of all time probably means a lot in this kind of selection process. You could probably convince me that if you're doing a best players of all time list then it shouldn't matter where they are from, buuuuuuuuuut I still think it does.

I think if Iginla had won in 2004 or with Boston or Pittsburgh, he'd be on the list.

[Mister Yamoto]

Of all the players listed that I have seen play, Grant Fuhr is the least worthy of being on the list.

[Flash Walken]

Who is a better candidate to replace Statsny: Malkin or Thornton?

That stat about Statsny being the second highest point producer of the 80s behind only Gretzky is pretty damned impressive I gotta say, but the lack of playoff success from him and his team should place him in the same rough tier as Thornton and Iginla in my opinion and both of their personal accolades seem better. If you put Iginla and Thornton in the 80s playing in the same league as Lemieux and Gretzky, do Iggy and Thornton finish that decade with the second most points? I'm not sure. Malkin, maybe.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Of all the players listed that I have seen play, Grant Fuhr is the least worthy of being on the list.

Fuhr definitely deserves to be there. People will compare save percentage and GAA from that era to this era. Scores were 6-4 or 7-5 in that era every night. Fuhr won 4 cups and was a big part why the Oilers dynasty was there.

He won a Vezina trophy with a 3.43 GAA and 0.881 save percentage in 87-88. That shows you how the era's are so different.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Fuhr definitely deserves to be there. People will compare save percentage and GAA from that era to this era. Scores were 6-4 or 7-5 in that era every night. Fuhr won 4 cups and was a big part why the Oilers dynasty was there.

He won a Vezina trophy with a 3.43 GAA and 0.881 save percentage in 87-88. That shows you how the era's are so different.

Then put Moog and Randford in there too. Both were better than Fuhr.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Then put Moog and Randford in there too. Both were better than Fuhr.

Bill Ranford was my favorite goaltender of all time and the 1990 Cup (I was only 6 when they won), is a moment I will never forget where he won the Conn Smythe. Fuhr though > Ranford. Fuhr is a hall of fame goalie and won 4 cups to Ranford's 1. Fuhr also won the Vezina.

Fuhr also finished 108 games over .500 where Ranford was 39 games under.

Moog was a solid goalie and was Fuhr's teammate on 3 of those cup wins. Solid goalie but Fuhr took over that team.

[OILFAN #81]

Dale Hawerchuk is a name I think that should have been on the top 100.

[Magnum PEI]

Datsyuk is the only player on the list drafted after 93 and before 02. Is there any other periods like that? Seems like the dead puck era is under represented.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I find it odd personal awards that are voted on are such a focus of this discussion. So much of them are the result of playing on a good team. Moreover they don't accurately represent much. Often the votes are done by the media who have a history of poorly judging players based on biases.

I think overall career statistics are far more important to this discussion than individual awards.


So who's better, the guy with far better career statistics, no cup, and only a 3rd place in the voting for an award and has never had a chance to win a cup or a Conn Smythe because he's played on a budget team or the guy who has ok stats and played ongreat teams and won an award because he was the best of a mediocre group?

Career statistics should definitely come into play.

They should be Era adjusted though to make everything equal otherwise players from the 1980s get huge undeserved boosts.

Also, good but not great players like Sundin might be seen as better than superior players such as Malkin, Iginla, and Thornton.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Datsyuk is the only player on the list drafted after 93 and before 02. Is there any other periods like that? Seems like the dead puck era is under represented.

There was an over representation of players from the 1980s an early 90s when scoring was at obscene levels. Pat LaFontaine? Mike Gartner? Bob Gainey?

Personally I like that they did the breakdown of pre-67 and post-67 because frankly, the original 6 era would be much more difficult to accurately compare and contrast, so I will try for a top 67 since 67 list. (numbered so I can keep track, not due to ranking)

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Jagr
5. Crosby
6. Yzerman
7. Sakic
8. Messier
9. Lidstrom
10. Bourque
11. Potvin (not Felix)
12. Bossy
13. Trottier
14. Roy
15. Brodeur
16. Hasek
17. Clarke
18. Forsberg
19. Lindros
20. Esposito
21. Lafleur
22. Dionne
23. Coffey
24. Kurri
25. Dryden
26. Stevens
27. Hull (Brett)
28. Chelios
29. Robinson
30. Pronger
31. Nidermayer
32. MacInnis
33. Shanahan
34. Hawerchuk
35. Fedorov
36. Ovechkin
37. Datsyuk
38. Iginla
39. Perreault
40. Leetch
41. Modano
42. Sittler
43. Stastny
44. Goulet
45. McDonald
46. Park
47. Smith
48. Bure
49. Malkin
50. Kane
51. Keith
52. Thornton
53. Chara
54. Selanne
55. Nieuwendyk
56. Recchi
57. Doughty
58. H. Sedin
59. Oates
60. St. Louis
61. Gilmour
62. Kariya
63. Sundin
64. Francis
65. Robitaille
66. Esposito (Tony)
67. McDavid Stamkos

[Strange Brew]

Fuhr is on the list because Gretzky routinely calls him best goaltender of all time.

[Strange Brew]

MMM - thanks for the list. That takes guts to throw it out there. I see you removed many of the Habs from your list - no Gainey, Cournoyer, Savard, Lemaire. I tend to agree.

To say that Jacques Lemaire was a batter all time center than Joe Thornton? Geez. If Thornton played for the Canadiens during that era he might have been considered better than Lafleur. FWIW I believe Lafleur is a little underrated in general. I would put him right outside the big 4, with guys like Hull and maybe Bossy. I put him a notch above Jagr, for example.

I like that Sittler is on your list. I am no huge fan but there was a time when I was a kid that it seemed like everyone I knew wanted to grow up to be Darryl Sittler.

[FanIn80]

Why doesn't Neely make these lists? 176 goals in 216 games between 1990-1994, in spite of missing huge stretches of each season due to injuries. Something like 400 goals and 1200 PIMs in 700 career games.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Fuhr is on the list because Gretzky routinely calls him best goaltender of all time.

Because Wayne's opinion is super important.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by codynw

Funny and a Ben Katz avatar, @ChiBDM on twitter has it going on.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Why doesn't Neely make these lists? 176 goals in 216 games between 1990-1994, in spite of missing huge stretches of each season due to injuries. Something like 400 goals and 1200 PIMs in 700 career games.

I didn't put Neely in there because the lack of longevity is a huge issue. He never won any major awards and total goals in the 80s/early 90s isn't as impressive as it is now. Brian Bellows scored close to 500 goals as well, so if I just look at his top seasons and extrapolate the entire career based on that, it gives a skewed picture.

Neely is close - if I had to pick another 10 he would be there, but there are just others who I feel are more deserving for their entire career.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

MMM - thanks for the list. That takes guts to throw it out there. I see you removed many of the Habs from your list - no Gainey, Cournoyer, Savard, Lemaire. I tend to agree.

To say that Jacques Lemaire was a batter all time center than Joe Thornton? Geez. If Thornton played for the Canadiens during that era he might have been considered better than Lafleur. FWIW I believe Lafleur is a little underrated in general. I would put him right outside the big 4, with guys like Hull and maybe Bossy. I put him a notch above Jagr, for example.

I like that Sittler is on your list. I am no huge fan but there was a time when I was a kid that it seemed like everyone I knew wanted to grow up to be Darryl Sittler.

I think the strange thing about the Canadiens teams from the era is that while they were obviously very good, their achievements are not due to them all being the best players, but rather making up the best team as a whole. I think that if you are looking at best players Jacques Lemaire and Bob Gainey are not on that list in their own right. If it was a list of best NHL teams, I would put the 1970s Canadiens at the top of the list. That doesn't mean all their players deserve to be at the top of the best of all time list though.

There is a false equivalency of being a great player and being on a great team on the NHLs list.

Patrick Marleau is actually a player who I think could fit into the top 100 since 67 if you include players like Gartner, someone who is just a consistently above average player.

[FireGilbert]

The oddest name on the list has to be Denis Savard. I was wondering if every Chicago writer put 100 Hawks on their ballot but I guess that doesn't explain the Belfour snub.