[Rumour] McKenzie: Gaudreau & Flames are closing gap, but it's still a considerable gap.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah the superstars generally play their whole career with one team. Gretzky, Messier, Orr, Esposito, Lafleur, Hull, Dionne, Roy, Hasek all retired with their original team. Flames really should learn from that. We'd be a lot better off if we'd hung on to Phaneuf and Iginla.

I was right with you until you wrote Phaneuf.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Two players in 30+ years. Monstrous.

Hey im not here to argue dude. Why dont you explain abd make an argument as to how the flames have done a great job of retaining their star players?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I was right with you until you wrote Phaneuf.

You were?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You were?

I know you were being sarcastic the whole time. But Phaneuf mentioned with star players.....

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Touché. I was actually thinking that when I wrote it, but he's also a goaltender so its kind of different.

Fact - The Flames don't have a great track record with keeping star players. Iginla, Nieuwendyk, Phaneuf, Hull, St. Louis, Fleury. You need franchise skaters to build around. It's hard to do that when you keep pushing them out. I sincerely hope this era is different and we don't repeat mistakes of the past. But this whole situation isn't too reassuring of that.

Wow. The Flames got Iginla for Nuewendyk and got the best of his productive years.

Phaneuf is not in the category of any of those guys. They won a cup after trading a young Hull. St. Louis was definitely asset mishandling but was not a star at that point.

If your opinions are in line with Johnny's, I feel sorry for him.

As BT, here's what I would consider.*

Offer A: sign before the seasons starts, fair Gio cap offer. 5x6 plus 3x8.
Offer B: sign by Dec 1: 4 M (so roughly 3 take home) + 4 x 6 + 8x 3
Offer C: Talk to you next year.

* Numbers approximate. Point is that Johnny has no rights, the Flames have leverage and should be prepared to use it. Waiting hurts and pouting hurts more.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Hey im not here to argue dude. Why dont you explain abd make an argument as to how the flames have done a great job of retaining their star players?

Through the last generation they kept both Iginla and Kipper through their prime.

As has already been pointed out, the days of star players staying with one team their whole career are getting more and more rare.

It was another giant reach on Gaudreauvertime's part to suggest this. Extremely weak, just like his entire agenda here.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I know you were being sarcastic the whole time.

Sorry - not the brightest over here.

[Poe969]

Its funny that Nieuwendyk and iggy are in the same list. We threw away Joe for nothing? How did we get iggy then?

Just stop. Can we get a thread where that one poster isn't allowed to post?

[Alpine Fisher]

Everybody should just cool down. I think every flames fan obviously wants Gaudreau to get signed by the Flames because he makes the team better.
What we disagree on is how the Calgary Flames go about doing that.
For those that argue that Gaudreau is being greedy need to put themselves in his shoes.
Likewise, those that argue the Flames are being cheap need to put themselves in the Flames Management and Ownership Shoes. They have a cap they need to operate within and a team to build.
I am more inclined to be of the opinion that the Flames are being cheap - if in fact they are trying to stay under 7M, as I believe Gaudreau is worth 7.5M
Just my opinion.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Two players in 30+ years. Monstrous.

Joe Nieuwendyk, Doug Gilmour and Al MacInnis were dealt following contract disputes weren't they?

[fanman]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Touché. I was actually thinking that when I wrote it, but he's also a goaltender so its kind of different.

Fact - The Flames don't have a great track record with keeping star players. Iginla, Nieuwendyk, Phaneuf, Hull, St. Louis, Fleury. You need franchise skaters to build around. It's hard to do that when you keep pushing them out. I sincerely hope this era is different and we don't repeat mistakes of the past. But this whole situation isn't too reassuring of that.

Sure except the situations surrounding those players leaving/being traded are all completely different. Apples to oranges and all that.

Iginla was past his prime on a failing team that needed a culture change. Necessary trade.

Nieuwendyk's situation happened well before the salary cap era when the Flames didn't have much money to throw around and couldn't compete with the bigger markets. Fun times.

Phaneuf, similar to Iginla. Took big steps backwards from his first two seasons. You could argue they gave up on him a little too soon, but he hasn't done much since being traded.

Hull. That one stung in hindsight. However, no hull trade, no cup. Necessary trade.

St. Louis might be the closest comparable. But different owners, managers, coaches, staff, etc etc etc from that time. Not really relevent to the current situation.

Fleury was also on the downswing, besides the fact that he had accumulated enough baggage to sink a ship. I was always a big Fleury fan in spite of his antics, and it stung when he left but I don't blame the Flames for parting ways at the time.

Point is, none of that has anything to do with the Gaudreau negotiations. He'll be signed and playing at some point during the early season, if not before. The only questions are how much and how long. IT WILL BE OK.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Hey im not here to argue dude. Why dont you explain abd make an argument as to how the flames have done a great job of retaining their star players?

Mikka Kipprusoff - 10 seasons - Retired a Flame
Mike Vernon - 14 seasons - Retired a Flames, Retired Number
TJ Brodie (Yup I'mma go there)- 6 seasons and counting
Mark Giordano - 8 seasons and counting
Theo Fleury (cast aside my lily white derriere) - 11 seasons
Jarome Iginla - 18 seasons. EIGHTEEN.
Al MacInnis - 13 seasons
Jamie Macoun - 10 seasons
Da Man - 8 seasons - Retired a Flames- Retired Number. The Man.

And the list goes on.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Through the last generation they kept both Iginla and Kipper through their prime.

As has already been pointed out, the days of star players staying with one team their whole career are getting more and more rare.

It was another giant reach on Gaudreauvertime's part to suggest this. Extremely weak, just like his entire agenda here.

You come up with two players. Thats pretty weak in my point of view. I think a lot of the fighting going on lately on here is very childish. Im a huge fan of the flames from sask and have tickets for the 22nd when the blues come to town, and if i even mention something negative about the flames on here or something they can improve on people argue and come unglued. That to me shows someone doesnt really know much about hockey. Ia a flames fan yes, but not much about hockey. Flames should be striving to improve all the time and we all know what staying in mediocrity will do. Just look 3 hours north of calgary

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Mikka Kipprusoff - 10 seasons - Retired a Flame
Mike Vernon - 14 seasons - Retired a Flames, Retired Number
TJ Brodie (Yup I'mma go there)- 6 seasons and counting
Mark Giordano - 8 seasons and counting
Theo Fleury (cast aside my lily white derriere) - 11 seasons
Jarome Iginla - 18 seasons. EIGHTEEN.
Al MacInnis - 13 seasons
Jamie Macoun - 10 seasons
Da Man - 8 seasons - Retired a Flames- Retired Number. The Man.

And the list goes on.

The fact that he doesn't differentiate pre and post cap eras is egregious enough, then add to that star players that were traded due to their play/team success aka Iginla, Phaneuf is just goofy.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Mikka Kipprusoff - 10 seasons - Retired a Flame
Mike Vernon - 14 seasons - Retired a Flames, Retired Number
TJ Brodie (Yup I'mma go there)- 6 seasons and counting
Mark Giordano - 8 seasons and counting
Theo Fleury (cast aside my lily white derriere) - 11 seasons
Jarome Iginla - 18 seasons. EIGHTEEN.
Al MacInnis - 13 seasons
Jamie Macoun - 10 seasons
Da Man - 8 seasons - Retired a Flames- Retired Number. The Man.

And the list goes on.

Thankyou thats a good list of greats

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

You come up with two players. Thats pretty weak in my point of view.

lol, and how many "star" players have we had in the last decade?

If you want to expand the definition, or go back farther than the last ten years, see Lanny'sDaMan's post above.

You are reaching.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

lol, and how many "star" players have we had in the last decade?

If you want to expand the definition, or go back farther than the last ten years, see Lanny'sDaMan's post above.

You are reaching.

Reaching for a bottle of whiskey to deal with your posts. I dont want to argue. Goodnight

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Reaching for a bottle of whiskey to deal with your posts. I dont want to argue. Goodnight

That would be because like Gaudreavertime, you have no point.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

We're lamenting the loss of Hull?

Sure, he had a great career. But we have no idea what would have happened if he stayed with the Flames. But we do know that trade help the Flames win the Cup.

So you take your Hull, and what might have happened, and I'll take the Cup. Every day.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

That would be because like Gaudreavertime, you have no point.

And what exactly is your point? Remember, you cant win the internet. As hard as you try