Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, I understand that I'm not always hip with the cool kids and their wacky nicknames but...who or what is Egg McMuffin?

Engellend I think, from context.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Engellend I think, from context.

I see. If Engelland were a breakfast of any kind I think he'd be Chicken and Waffles with grits.

Just a completely immovable object that no amount of effort can defeat. Once Engelland arrives its just time to go down and stay down.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

^ curves2000

Glencross retired last year, and Jones is rumoured to have a PTO here.

Bartkowski just isn't that good.

The point I was trying to illustrate is how quickly the market has changed for a variety of players. Glencross, Bartowski, Russell & Jones were all regular NHL players either in 14-15 (Glencross) or last season. It is just surprising in a lot of ways at the speed at the changes in the NHL.

When players are accepting PTO's in my opinion, that usually means the NHL min. deal, 2 way contracts etc aren't on the table for a lot of these players. Personal pride for a lot of these guys mean they need to impress in order to get a job.

We might see some signings from teams here soon but it's still shocking the amount of NHL regulars who are fighting for jobs.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by curves2000

The point I was trying to illustrate is how quickly the market has changed for a variety of players. Glencross, Bartowski, Russell & Jones were all regular NHL players either in 14-15 (Glencross) or last season. It is just surprising in a lot of ways at the speed at the changes in the NHL.

When players are accepting PTO's in my opinion, that usually means the NHL min. deal, 2 way contracts etc aren't on the table for a lot of these players. Personal pride for a lot of these guys mean they need to impress in order to get a job.

We might see some signings from teams here soon but it's still shocking the amount of NHL regulars who are fighting for jobs.

That's life in the cap world. You want a commitment, you had best be bonafide. Unfortunately, Kris Russell defines 'fringe top 4'. The rest are replacement level NHL players. Fifty guys who are 22 years old that bring what D-Jones, Bartkowski, and Glencross bring.

Nobody wants to be unable to retain a key player because they're paying someone of Lance Bouma's talent nearly $3M for multiple years. It's no coincidence that Treliving's three least-popular moves are the Bouma extension (which I think he learned from), Bollig, and Engelland. You should be able to replace those players from within your organization for no more than $1M each, yet those three players combine to make the same amount of money as Sean Monahan.

THAT is how you end up in cap hell.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

That's life in the cap world. You want a commitment, you had best be bonafide. Unfortunately, Kris Russell defines 'fringe top 4'. The rest are replacement level NHL players. Fifty guys who are 22 years old that bring what D-Jones, Bartkowski, and Glencross bring.

Nobody wants to be unable to retain a key player because they're paying someone of Lance Bouma's talent nearly $3M for multiple years. It's no coincidence that Treliving's three least-popular moves are the Bouma extension (which I think he learned from), Bollig, and Engelland. You should be able to replace those players from within your organization for no more than $1M each, yet those three players combine to make the same amount of money as Sean Monahan.

THAT is how you end up in cap hell.

I agree with everything in you post, still surprising, thats all.

Although I don't like Bouma's contract, hopefully he can bounce back somewhat from that awful year of his last year. He might be overpaid but last year he wasn't even contributing which can be worse.

One of the items I had was in my initial post was the advice from agents, far too often I find agents price their clients out of work or into poor situations and it seems to be happening more often these days. I understand players have SOME influence but it's their job to play hockey and perform, it's the agents role to get the best possible deal for the client but lately seems to be hindering future employment.

I will never forget a radio interview I heard years ago about Rob Niedermayer. The host was just shocked that he had signed yet ANOTHER contract and the co-host who was a former player (can't recall name) said something along the lines of "Smart agent, always getting the $1-2 mil a year deals and the guys coming up on his 17th season with marginal scoring stats"

I was just more surprised at the level of NHL guys struggling to find work and the changing market. Even in the AHL its getting harder and harder for veterans to get work and be mentors to these young guys. I just find it interesting, I don't have a strong connection to any of these PTO guys or anything.

[sureLoss]

McKenzie thinks Russell will sign a 1 year deal in the next couple of days... feels like the last few months someone has been saying Russell will sign in the next few days:

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-t...t-number-days/

TSN Insider Bob McKenzie returned to work after Labor Day and hit the airwaves this week, and his Wednesday morning radio hit on Toronto’s TSN 1050 revealed a little more information on the Russell front.

“The long and short of it for Kris Russell is that I think he’ll sign here in the next number of days,” said McKenzie. “Maybe next week, but maybe before the end of this week. Multiple teams talking to him still. I don’t believe the Leafs are one of them. I think he’s more likely to take a one-year deal – or to get a one-year deal – than anything else, and go back to the free agent trough next summer and try to experience better luck than he did this year.

“I think he suffered from a number of things. There was a general sense out there that his expectations were for like a five-year deal at more than $5 million a year, and I think that scared a lot of teams off and they didn’t go down that road. By the time they sorted out what they were doing, Russell was kind of left on the sidelines.

“He’s not a fancy stats darling by any stretch of the imagination. And going to Dallas, like he did down the stretch, and Dallas not doing particularly well, didn’t help him. Although it certainly didn’t hurt Jason Demers, who went to Florida. Or Goligoski, who went from Dallas to Arizona.”

[Bingo]

I'm so bloody torn on the Kris Russell thing I can't stand it.

Love the guy
Worried about his underlying numbers

Would make the trade classic
Didn't like him with Hamilton

Good story
He closes a gap that keeps a kid from making it

sigh ....

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm so bloody torn on the Kris Russell thing I can't stand it.

Love the guy
Worried about his underlying numbers

Would make the trade classic
Didn't like him with Hamilton

Good story
He closes a gap that keeps a kid from making it

sigh ....

exactly how I feel.

[Flash Walken]

Booby Mac basically spelling out that Russell overplayed his hand in free agency by asking for too much and that now he'll have to take a risky 1 year deal if he wants to play somewhere.

Jesus, who was advising this guy? Weren't he and Glencross friends? You'd think Curtis would be advising him that a bird in a hand is worth two in the bush. I bet Curtis is wishing he'd signed that extension Treliving offered before dealing him.

If the Flames were anywhere close to a 5 million per year deal for Russell and he didn't take it, he should fire his agent.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Booby Mac basically spelling out that Russell overplayed his hand in free agency by asking for too much and that now he'll have to take a risky 1 year deal if he wants to play somewhere.

Jesus, who was advising this guy? Weren't he and Glencross friends? You'd think Curtis would be advising him that a bird in a hand is worth two in the bush. I bet Curtis is wishing he'd signed that extension Treliving offered before dealing him.

If the Flames were anywhere close to a 5 million per year deal for Russell and he didn't take it, he should fire his agent.

The Glencross thing is probably what caused the whole mess to begin with.

Glencross made some pretty big statements that he regretted taking a home town discount with the Flames on his last contract.

If anything that probably caused Russell to try and get a bigger contract this time around and not sign with the Flames for a "discount".

Think the mistake they made was thinking that Russell's market value was closer to that of Glencross when he re-signed with the Flames with a discount vs. the value Glencross had when he was forced to retire.

[Toonage]

If they (Glencross & Russell) were making their decisions at the same time I could forgive Russell for aiming too high.

But Russell had the benefit of seeing what happened to Glencross last year and still went down that road. Foolish.

[Red]

Wonder where Russell would get the idea of demanding an inflated contract.

Were Russell to go to July 1, is there any doubt he’s going to get at least, emphasis on at least, a five-year offer for $5.5 million? And he may well be looking for more than that, both in term and dollars. - Bob McKenzie


http://www.tsn.ca/reading-the-trade-...eaves-1.436138

[saXon]

I believe it's time to move on from Russell. He left, and moving forward is key.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Toonage

If they (Glencross & Russell) were making their decisions at the same time I could forgive Russell for aiming too high.

But Russell had the benefit of seeing what happened to Glencross last year and still went down that road. Foolish.

Dont forget Hudler. It took him a long time to get anything and the best he could get is a 1-year $2M from Dallas.

There wasnt exactly a line at his door either.

Thats Glencross, Hudler and Russell that left the Flames and then had a hard time finding work.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Dont forget Hudler. It took him a long time to get anything and the best he could get is a 1-year $2M from Dallas.

There wasnt exactly a line at his door either.

Thats Glencross, Hudler and Russell that left the Flames and then had a hard time finding work.

It's almost like support players on bad teams aren't highly valued.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats Glencross, Hudler and Russell that left the Flames and then had a hard time finding work.

Does this exemplify that the Flames are keeping too many useless players on their rosters?

I do think the likes of Engelland and Stajan will have a tough time getting new contracts once their tenure with the Flames are over.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Does this exemplify that the Flames are keeping too many useless players on their rosters?

I do think the likes of Engelland and Stajan will have a tough time getting new contracts once their tenure with the Flames are over.

If you look at the year to year roster turnover of feaster vs treliving you will be shocked.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Does this exemplify that the Flames are keeping too many useless players on their rosters?

I do think the likes of Engelland and Stajan will have a tough time getting new contracts once their tenure with the Flames are over.

Well...yes and no.

We also have to remember that we are still rebuilding and certain role players are required for that. You never, ever go full Oiler and try rebuilding your team by stocking it from the local DayCare.

Certain vets are needed for certain roles, if anything the Flames seem to have been pretty astute at determining a players' uses and cutting them loose when they've fulfilled those roles.

Treliving is a cold hearted bastard. And I love it.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Does this exemplify that the Flames are keeping too many useless players on their rosters?

I do think the likes of Engelland and Stajan will have a tough time getting new contracts once their tenure with the Flames are over.

Ugh. Before he was signed to his current contract I predicted this, that he would have to get a PTO on his next deal. Then Burke did Burke things.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The Glencross thing is probably what caused the whole mess to begin with.

Glencross made some pretty big statements that he regretted taking a home town discount with the Flames on his last contract.

If anything that probably caused Russell to try and get a bigger contract this time around and not sign with the Flames for a "discount".

Think the mistake they made was thinking that Russell's market value was closer to that of Glencross when he re-signed with the Flames with a discount vs. the value Glencross had when he was forced to retire.

The whole Glencross regretting taking a home town discount thing drives me bananas. Glencross, you were 3rd line / fringe 2nd line forward who received a Full NTC on your contract. Players like you don't get full NTCs unless they give up something for it.

Glencross, you exchanged salary for that NTC and the location security and final say on where you play for added stability in your home life. That is not a benefit most NHL players get. You knew what you were doing when you signed the deal, stop making it seem like you did the Flames a favour and now you regret it.