Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency? - Page 21 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Enoch Root · 08-28-2016, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I get ticked off watching clips like that.

It was so obvious even from even November last year that the goalies were not getting it done. I do not know why there wasn't more movement to bring in a goalie instead of wasting the year.

Easier said than done.

Also, the season was pretty much dead by that point. Also, in that situation they probably have to overpay. And in the end, the season got them Tkachuk.

Strange Brew · 08-28-2016, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Easier said than done.

Also, the season was pretty much dead by that point. Also, in that situation they probably have to overpay. And in the end, the season got them Tkachuk.

I will disagree you there a little bit. Although in the end I'm glad we ended up with Tkachuk, I have heard Burke (and BT too, I believe), say that making the playoffs every year is the goal.

I can't buy the fact that by the time they realized goaltending was a problem, it was too late. That is a rather large admission of failure. If playoffs truly was the goal (which I'm not convinced of frankly) there were certainly options that could have been tried. Veteran free agents, low risk trades a la Dubnyk. Something. Flames essentially did nothing.

The failure rests primarily with the goalies themselves, but Hartley and management did nothing to improve the situation.

Which in the big picture is probably good.

Back to Russell - I have gone from thinking its possible, to now thinking its about 50/50 he plays for the Flames this year.

JiriHrdina · 08-28-2016, 06:47 PM

What goalie do you think was available last season?
A Dubnyk or Kipper mid-season acquisition that turns a team around in net - is highly unusual.

jayswin · 08-28-2016, 06:56 PM

Haha yeah, that was my first thought. Guy comes up with a rare scenario and says "why didn't we do that?".

I don't know, maybe the fact that if another Dubnyk/Kipper goalie situation was known before hand there'd be 29 GM's competing for that goalie with high level trade offers?

Damn you, Treliving, why didn't you use hindsight before the fact to acquire a top level NHL starter!??!!

Strange Brew · 08-28-2016, 07:15 PM

Yeah I'm not suggesting that any trade would have worked out like Dubnyk or Kipper. Of course it would not have. But I don't think the Wild were expecting Dubnyk to play like he did. They gave up what a 3rd rounder for him? Their season was slipping away and they decided they had to do something.

The Flames goaltending was deplorable last year. Are you suggesting there were zero options beyond keeping what they had? I guess no one knows but I suspect there was something out there. Unfortunately I can't tell you what was available because I'm not aware of that type of information being publicized.

Strange Brew · 08-28-2016, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

Haha yeah, that was my first thought. Guy comes up with a rare scenario and says "why didn't we do that?".

I don't know, maybe the fact that if another Dubnyk/Kipper goalie situation was known before hand there'd be 29 GM's competing for that goalie with high level trade offers?

Damn you, Treliving, why didn't you use hindsight before the fact to acquire a top level NHL starter!??!!

Come on - of course I'm not suggesting he should have pulled off some miracle. I am suggesting that simply hoping the guys you had were going to play better was not the only option if playoffs were your true goal.

What do you think it would have cost to get Chad Johnson out of Buffalo? Could that have helped? Or Montoya maybe?

Roof-Daddy · 08-28-2016, 07:22 PM

There were Strong rumours that BT tried hard to poach Matt Murray before he broke out with the Pens. Who knows, maybe if MAF hadn't gotten hurt, they would have caved in at some point.

killer_carlson · 08-28-2016, 07:47 PM

i'd have given Tokarski a shot for what it would have cost to acquire him.

JiriHrdina · 08-28-2016, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah I'm not suggesting that any trade would have worked out like Dubnyk or Kipper. Of course it would not have. But I don't think the Wild were expecting Dubnyk to play like he did. They gave up what a 3rd rounder for him? Their season was slipping away and they decided they had to do something.

The Flames goaltending was deplorable last year. Are you suggesting there were zero options beyond keeping what they had? I guess no one knows but I suspect there was something out there. Unfortunately I can't tell you what was available because I'm not aware of that type of information being publicized.

Well I believe they were trying to upgrade over the season and they couldn't find someone that they thought would be an upgrade and could be acquired.

Strange Brew · 08-28-2016, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well I believe they were trying to upgrade over the season and they couldn't find someone that they thought would be an upgrade and could be acquired.

I think they were looking for the long term answer.

I believe they still are but didn't want to waste another season.

GreenLantern2814 · 08-28-2016, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'd have given Tokarski a shot for what it would have cost to acquire him.

Why?

JiriHrdina · 08-28-2016, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think they were looking for the long term answer.

I believe they still are but didn't want to waste another season.

I think they hope that Gillies is but will know better after a year of proper development.
I agree though they were looking for a longer-term answer, but if they could have gotten a short-term upgrade for the right cost - I think they would have.

I just don't think that option was out there.

868904 · 08-28-2016, 09:25 PM

The problem last year wsnt just the goaltending, it was also the defensive system. The goaltending was certainly bad, but Hartley's kitty-bar-the-door defensive system was probably just as bad.

Treliving probably realized that they weren't going to acquire a goalie who was going to perform a miracle within the system that was in place. Hence the firing in the summer.

Strange Brew · 08-28-2016, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think they hope that Gillies is but will know better after a year of proper development.
I agree though they were looking for a longer-term answer, but if they could have gotten a short-term upgrade for the right cost - I think they would have.

I just don't think that option was out there.

You're right to use the word "hope" with Gillies. Who knows yet.

Not to go all conspiracy theory, but I don't think BT was that upset to get a good draft pick and have Hartley's system exposed last year. I have to believe he could have gotten someone's backup or a tweener AHLer for a mid round pick. Not exactly jeopardizing the future.

Vulcan · 08-28-2016, 10:04 PM

Reimer was available but Treliving passed on him when he was free, so I don't see him paying for him.

JiriHrdina · 08-28-2016, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You're right to use the word "hope" with Gillies. Who knows yet.

Not to go all conspiracy theory, but I don't think BT was that upset to get a good draft pick and have Hartley's system exposed last year. I have to believe he could have gotten someone's backup or a tweener AHLer for a mid round pick. Not exactly jeopardizing the future.

And why would you think a tweener or backup that was available would be an upgrade?

killer_carlson · 08-28-2016, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why?

Because the three we had were worst in the league. Tokarski would have cost a b-level prospect and that was a low risk move from my perspective.

If they couldn't land a big fish then try a former top prospect who may be motivated to get another crack.

Mr.Coffee · 08-28-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

The problem last year wsnt just the goaltending, it was also the defensive system. The goaltending was certainly bad, but Hartley's kitty-bar-the-door defensive system was probably just as bad.

Treliving probably realized that they weren't going to acquire a goalie who was going to perform a miracle within the system that was in place. Hence the firing in the summer.

Totally agree and think this is bang on. If you look at Calgary's defense core, the players on it should put it into top 1/3 of the NHL (I think, anyway).

So to have SO many defensive lapses, odd man rushes. It really was just poor team defense for much of the season. Especially at the start of the season, holy #### there were so many bad mental mistakes, out of position plays. Poor support from the offence.

That's the one area Gulutzan can improve, but I think the offence takes a bit of a hit with what I expect to be rising expectations on the forwards to play better defense and try to work a new system that will surely focus on more stability on the back end.

Elliott's numbers were NHL leading for save % over last year or two... with Calgary's tire-fire defense to start last season, that'll change for poor ol' Elliott unless the team buys into something a little different which I'm hoping they do.

Strange Brew · 08-28-2016, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And why would you think a tweener or backup that was available would be an upgrade?

Flames goaltending was horrible. Bad system or not. I believe about any NHL goalie would have been an upgrade or at least would have been worth trying if goal was to make the playoffs. Pretty clear the guys we had weren't going to get it done wasn't it?

JiriHrdina · 08-28-2016, 10:22 PM

It was. But I don't think you give up assets for shots in the dark. I think if there was a guy out there that they felt could help, and was acquirable, they would have done it.
I suppose they could have tried to get a guy like James Reimier but was anyone in favor of giving up assets for an expiring contract?
Frankly the season was over before it began, thanks to the horrendous start.
I'm glad they didn't give up any assets to try and sneak in.