The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

For those who missed it like me, here's the argument between JD and Gibbons.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...e-jays-dugout/

Looks like Donaldson almost clipped Gibby with his bat, and Gibby didn't like it. Seems like Gibby may have given Donaldson a little "Back off" shove. Water on the bridge I would assume.

Thole got in there and broke it up, his best contribution to the Jays this year.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It's not just messageboards, you should listen to the Toronto media. Now they are harsh to begin with, but man oh man, there would have been some show around the Blue Jays if things things didn't go well.

I think you are pretty naive to think there isn't some serious trusts issues between a lot of Jays fans, Jays players and management. Not as bad as Rocky Wirtz in Chicago, but it's up there and is always in the background of the club.

Well I'm in the TO market, and can speak to the fact that it's 99% pure optimism around the Jays. There is not too much negativity to be found in these parts - everyone is talking about getting playoff seats, etc.

That is, unless you tune into Mike Wilner's post game show where he takes calls from mouth breathing fans. If you listen to that show and take it to be the majority, then yes you'd feel negativity. But that's a far cry from how the city is feeling about the Jays.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It's not just messageboards, you should listen to the Toronto media. Now they are harsh to begin with, but man oh man, there would have been some show around the Blue Jays if things things didn't go well.

I think you are pretty naive to think there isn't some serious trusts issues between a lot of Jays fans, Jays players and management. Not as bad as Rocky Wirtz in Chicago, but it's up there and is always in the background of the club.

I also don't care what the Toronto media is saying unless it is people that have perspective and balance like Stephen Brunt.
Negative people tend to see negativity everywhere. I would strongly suggest that in the case of the Jays you are largely only hearing POVs that are aligned with yours.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I wonder if Thole was trying to break up the fight, or stop it from accidentally touching his meal ticket who was sitting near by. Probably a little of A and a little of B.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I wonder if Thole was trying to break up the fight, or stop it from accidentally touching his meal ticket who was sitting near by. Probably a little of A and a little of B.

Troy Tulowitzki broke it up.

As for the joke around Thole, give it a rest...

He play's once every 6 games,

Jay's have more than enough offense to compensate.

All the Jays expect I would think is, is to call a really good game.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by flambers

Troy Tulowitzki broke it up.

As for the joke around Thole, give it a rest...

He play's once every 6 games,

Jay's have more than enough offense to compensate.

All the Jays expect I would think is, is to call a really good game.

A) You must be blind. Thole is the first guy in there.

B) Thole may only catch 1 out of every 5/6 games, but he has an effect on the roster each night. He can't pitch hit and he can't pinch run. He effectively ties Gibbons hands. He has one less bench player every night than 99% of the teams in the major league which is a big deal because there is precious few bench spots until the rosters open up in September.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flambers

Troy Tulowitzki broke it up.

As for the joke around Thole, give it a rest...

He play's once every 6 games,

Jay's have more than enough offense to compensate.

All the Jays expect I would think is, is to call a really good game.

C'mon! It's clearly a joke (kinda funny one at that).

[Jason14h]

I also don't care what the Toronto media is saying unless it is people that have perspective and balance like Stephen Brunt.
Negative people tend to see negativity everywhere. I would strongly suggest that in the case of the Jays you are largely only hearing POVs that are aligned with yours.

Here's the question. After the season if (when?) the Jays let Bautista, Saunders and EE walk, after drawing the highest attendance in MLB and having the best TV rating for Jays ever, will your opinion change?

I think this is the main issue. The negative fans don't have a huge issue with this years team (although I do agree they did a disservice going into the year with this bullpen) but I think it's more we've seen how Rogers operates over the past 35 years.

If they open the wallet and signed EE, and at least make an effort to replace the other 2 with SOMETHING, I think it will go a long way to rebuilding the trust.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here's the question. After the season if (when?) the Jays let Bautista, Saunders and EE walk, after drawing the highest attendance in MLB and having the best TV rating for Jays ever, will your opinion change?

I think this is the main issue. The negative fans don't have a huge issue with this years team (although I do agree they did a disservice going into the year with this bullpen) but I think it's more we've seen how Rogers operates over the past 35 years.

If they open the wallet and signed EE, and at least make an effort to replace the other 2 with SOMETHING, I think it will go a long way to rebuilding the trust.

Yup it would be hard to complain then. That's a big "If" though, and history suggests that won't be the case. I sure hope they sign EE. There's really no justification as to why they wouldn't. I actually think he would have been a lot cheaper to sign this winter. His price tag just keeps going up and up and up.

Rogers has only owned the team for 16 years. We had s pretty good run under the previous ownership.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here's the question. After the season if (when?) the Jays let Bautista, Saunders and EE walk, after drawing the highest attendance in MLB and having the best TV rating for Jays ever, will your opinion change?

I think this is the main issue. The negative fans don't have a huge issue with this years team (although I do agree they did a disservice going into the year with this bullpen) but I think it's more we've seen how Rogers operates over the past 35 years.

If they open the wallet and signed EE, and at least make an effort to replace the other 2 with SOMETHING, I think it will go a long way to rebuilding the trust.

I don't know if the Jays have really cheaped out since Shatkins took over. You can argue that letting Price walk is evidence, but honestly, he failed this team in the playoffs last year and his season thus far in Boston is really making Shatkins look really smart. Especially with how Happ is playing.

Based on what we've seen this year, Rogers definitely should NOT be opening the wallets for Bautista and Saunders. Edwin, yes maybe.

All year long, the Jays have been rumoured to be going after some power (see Jay Bruce) to replace the potential loss of Bautista and Saunders. With how things are going, I see Upton as Saunders replacement and I think that's at least a wash (Saunders has the better numbers so far, but Upton is far superior in the field).

They just need someone to replace Bautista and with the season he's had, that shouldn't be too difficult.

Rogers will never spend like the Yankees or Red Sox but to me they step up when the GM has asked for it. Look at how much salary they took on when they acquired Dickey and the Marlins a few years ago. Last year, they paid what some consider above market value for Martin. This deadline, they added Liriano's big contract and he might just end up as a bullpen piece. Even before recent history, they paid top dollar to guys like Delgado, Wells, Clemens, Halladay. Jays have always had premier and expensive players.

To me, they are spending money, they just aren't spending it recklessly like the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers, but as has been proven, you don't need to spend like them to win the World Series.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here's the question. After the season if (when?) the Jays let Bautista, Saunders and EE walk, after drawing the highest attendance in MLB and having the best TV rating for Jays ever, will your opinion change?

I think this is the main issue. The negative fans don't have a huge issue with this years team (although I do agree they did a disservice going into the year with this bullpen) but I think it's more we've seen how Rogers operates over the past 35 years.

If they open the wallet and signed EE, and at least make an effort to replace the other 2 with SOMETHING, I think it will go a long way to rebuilding the trust.

I'd like to see them sign EE but I don't know what level of interest he has to return. It has to be mutual interest.
Re-signing Jose and Saunders though could be more harmful than beneficial, even if they can't replace them with other bats.
So I will not be dissapointed if Jose and Saunders aren't re-signed. But I would be disappointed if they don't plug those holes to some degree.

But that's also an off-season problem and shouldn't detract from enjoying a fun season of baseball with a damn good team.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't know if the Jays have really cheaped out since Shatkins took over. You can argue that letting Price walk is evidence, but honestly, he failed this team in the playoffs last year and his season thus far in Boston is really making Shatkins look really smart. Especially with how Happ is playing.

Based on what we've seen this year, Rogers definitely should NOT be opening the wallets for Bautista and Saunders. Edwin, yes maybe.

All year long, the Jays have been rumoured to be going after some power (see Jay Bruce) to replace the potential loss of Bautista and Saunders. With how things are going, I see Upton as Saunders replacement and I think that's at least a wash (Saunders has the better numbers so far, but Upton is far superior in the field).

They just need someone to replace Bautista and with the season he's had, that shouldn't be too difficult.

Rogers will never spend like the Yankees or Red Sox but to me they step up when the GM has asked for it. Look at how much salary they took on when they acquired Dickey and the Marlins a few years ago. Last year, they paid what some consider above market value for Martin. This deadline, they added Liriano's big contract and he might just end up as a bullpen piece. Even before recent history, they paid top dollar to guys like Delgado, Wells, Clemens, Halladay. Jays have always had premier and expensive players.

To me, they are spending money, they just aren't spending it recklessly like the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers, but as has been proven, you don't need to spend like them to win the World Series.

I think this is an excellent post.
There are only a few teams that can function like the Yankees - where it doesn't matter how much money you throw away, because the pool of cash is just endless.
The Jays have victimized themselves in the past by paying the wrong guys big cash (Wells, Hinske, Aaron Hill, Romero, etc).
They can't do that again. Nor can they take too short of view and overpay aging players. There needs to be balance.

This is the problem with MLB. There is still too much of a gap between what teams can and will spend.

Having a thinner lineup next year is better than having a better lineup only buy handing out contracts that are going to be prohibitive in the long-term.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I really don't see this " you can't expect them to spend as much as the Yankees and Red Sox" argument as valid. No one is saying that or expecting them to, but Rogers needs to be willing to be willing to loosen the purse strings from time to time when the opportunity presents itself to win. It's pretty clear that's not the case though. Look at the Storen trade this summer. This Almost fell through because the Blue Jays refused to take on any additional salary. Bullpen was a huge need of the Jays and they were held up by 2M bucks. In hindsight it wood have been better if the trade fell apart, but the story shows what Blue Jays management as to deal with on a daily basis thanks to Rogers.

[Dan02]

The Blue Jays are 15-8 over the last 23 games winning 6 of 7 series including all 4 series against potential playoff rivals. Happ has 17 MFing wins, and Sanchez is a legitimate Cy Young contender. Estrada has been magical, Osuna is a stud and Grilli has been dynamite. Donaldson is having another MVP caliber season, EE leads the MLB in RBIs, Travis picked up right where he left off before the injury last season and Tulo is finding his stroke.

The Jays lead the AL East, are second in the AL in wins and 4th in the MLB this despite the bats and the bullpen taking the first month off.

Why all the negativity? Every team is going to have players with off years. Can you imagine if every player on the Jays met or overachieved expectations? They'd probably win 120, but that doesn't happen, for the Jays or anyone else for that matter. So can we have a little less whining and a little more enjoying the run?

*added* 47 - 28 since May 18th, that's a 102 win pace for the last 3 months. Someone prop up that sky.

[calculoso]

@BaseballAmerica: Blue Jays Fire Scouting Director, National Crosschecker http://ow.ly/V9f6503zULX

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by calculoso

@BaseballAmerica: Blue Jays Fire Scouting Director, National Crosschecker http://ow.ly/V9f6503zULX

Hopefully they bring in some of their guys from Cleveland. They sure know how to build a baseball team with not much budget to work with.

Parker found us a few good pitchers, but his record at drafting position players is pretty terrible. Change may be good. Pillar is the only
Position player on the current Jays roster which was drafted by the Jays and Parker has been with the team since 2009 (in charge since 2012).

[savemedrzaius]

I actually want to buy some Tom Ford cologne now just to see what it is like...if they weren't paying JD they should start.

[Sainters7]

Considering the DB-looking evening anchor on TSN followed up that story by saying that's great cologne, I'm guessing it's of the extra musky variety. Just seems the type to wear way too much of some super musky cologne...the anchor I mean.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I really don't see this " you can't expect them to spend as much as the Yankees and Red Sox" argument as valid. No one is saying that or expecting them to, but Rogers needs to be willing to be willing to loosen the purse strings from time to time when the opportunity presents itself to win. It's pretty clear that's not the case though. Look at the Storen trade this summer. This Almost fell through because the Blue Jays refused to take on any additional salary. Bullpen was a huge need of the Jays and they were held up by 2M bucks. In hindsight it wood have been better if the trade fell apart, but the story shows what Blue Jays management as to deal with on a daily basis thanks to Rogers.

Rogers is not a prefect owner I agree, corporate owners usually arn't, I think it also needs to be pointed out that that they OK the Jays eating close to 2 million on Morales, eating the remainder of Chavez's salary and taking on Lariano's contract all of which appear to exceed what was believed to be the original budget for the Jays. Also Ok'd Price last year.

I get you do not like Rogers and I agree with some of what you say but I think they are better owners then you think. Would it be great to have a non corproate owner, absolutley, but who exactly in Toronto is lining up to buy the Jays over the last 15-20 years?

[Cappy]

In the one league with no salary cap it is all too easy to rag on the owners to spend more money. Toronto isnt the only team in the league that suffers from this.

Minnesota
Oakland
Pirates
Rockies
White Sox
Even the Rangers a few years ago.


In terms of the off season, that is another question. Sound baseball teams with the pockets might not even want to sign all our free agents. Saunders, Bautista, Edwin etc.

We are one of the oldest teams in the league, one of the oldest power hitting teams in the league. Outside of a few guys, power doesn't age well. Do you push another 20 million per to two power hitters on the wrong side of 30? for how many years?

If the jays fail to sign either of Edwin or Bautista, i honestly don't think i could fault the logic. Would i disagree? of course, but I'm not the owners/GM who look at the Phillies with all their wasted money (still paying 133 million) and say that is something i want to follow