The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

I feel bad for what Shapiro is going to have to deal with. He's doing the best he can with the hand he was dealt. He's just carrying out the corporate orders.

[Karl]

It's absolutely embarrassing watching the Jays bat now. Can't hit much of anything right now. Couldn't even hit Archer's hanging sliders. Pitiful.

[Machiavelli]

The team that lost their mojo...

This season could be really ugly if the pitching catches up to the awful hitting performance.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Why exactly did the Jays trade for Storen? Couldn't have gotten somebody, anybody, else for Revere?

Not like Revere is ripping it up, either, with his .093 batting average. Washington might still trade back if we asked nicely.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Not like Revere is ripping it up, either, with his .093 batting average. Washington might still trade back if we asked nicely.

He got hurt in the season opener and I think he's only played a handful of games since his return.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Not like Revere is ripping it up, either, with his .093 batting average. Washington might still trade back if we asked nicely.

But at the time they could have done better. Storen looks completely broken.

[savemedrzaius]

Gibbons=MVP

[habernac]

at least they got rid of this guy:

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 25s26 seconds ago
Steve Delabar faced 6 hitters last night & walked 5 of them. Clayton Kershaw has faced 253 hitters this year -- & walked 4 of them. Really.

[InBurkeWeTrust]

This team.. It's unfortunate that the once, strength of the team, is now on par with the rest of the struggles.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Dan02

no kidding in hindsight, we lack a true leadoff hitter and traded him for a song basically.

True leadoff hitters don't get on base at a .330 clip. There's more to batting leadoff than being a base stealer in the modern game.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JayP

True leadoff hitters don't get on base at a .330 clip. There's more to batting leadoff than being a base stealer in the modern game.

The average OBP for leadoff hitters in the Major leagues is around .325 (slowly decreasing over the years). Revere had an OBP of .354 with Toronto and has career OBP of .325.

[GirlySports]

Also if Revere is on base and a base stealing threat, Donaldson gets more fastballs (I think)

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Not like Revere is ripping it up, either, with his .093 batting average. Washington might still trade back if we asked nicely.

in fairness to Rivere he was injured.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Not like Revere is ripping it up, either, with his .093 batting average. Washington might still trade back if we asked nicely.

The Jays could actually use that kind of power in the line up right now.

[868904]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Also if Revere is on base and a base stealing threat, Donaldson gets more fastballs (I think)

Revere's importance to the team is way overblown. The Jays offense and Donaldson was great before he got there and was great afterwards too. Revere sucked when it mattered. I can't recall too many big hits or impact plays from him, but I do remember him failing to make contact to score Pompey from 3rd to tie up Game 6 versus the Royals.

The Jays woes this year are not the result of Revere not being here. I think the hitters just let all the "best lineup in baseball" BS get to their heads.

[howard_the_duck]

LOL. Did people really see Ben Revere as the catalyst?

Career .325 obp driven by a high batting average. Has a Kevin Pillar-esque eye at the plate (meaning no BBs) and has hit a grand total of 4 career home runs.

His career OPS of .670 is also well below replacement level for a corner outfielder. People talk about him around here like he's a modern day Kenny Lofton.

[Dan02]

I don't see anyone claiming anything of the like from Rivere, but he was definitely the least ####ty option.

Let's remember Michael Saunders, despite having significantly more power has a OPS not much better then Riveres and is a downgrade defensively.

We're just lucking out that Saunders is having year where his batting average is 80 points higher then career average and OPS over 200 points higher, and he's 29 not like he is a spring chicken waiting to break out. The reality with him is it's more then likely he won't continue to post those numbers at the plate.

Carreras numbers are equally unimpressive as well. Whether you like it or not Rivere was the Jays best option both as a leadoff hitter and in left field. I didn't say he was a great one.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

LOL. Did people really see Ben Revere as the catalyst?

Career .325 obp driven by a high batting average. Has a Kevin Pillar-esque eye at the plate (meaning no BBs) and has hit a grand total of 4 career home runs.

His career OPS of .670 is also well below replacement level for a corner outfielder. People talk about him around here like he's a modern day Kenny Lofton.

He's not the catalyst but how it was handled is a prime example of why this team will never win it all unless they catch lighting in a bottle one year.

They needed bullpen pitching, so rather than keeping their team together and adding by signing a free agent, they took a good piece off their current roster which simply shifts the hole in the roster to another spot.


So now the decision is made to move Revere for pitching (OK maybe I can see that given the offence last year), but it's not as simple as that. Rather than being open to anyone available, the Blue Jays need to find a specific fit. They need a bullpen pitcher who makes the exact same or less than Revere because of budget constraints, and this pitcher cannot have any amount of term left on his contract. That basically cuts out any pitcher in their prime or a young pitcher who is established. Could they have got that for Revere (or a package containing Revere)? We'll never know, but the option was not available due to finances. That leaves you basically with a bunch of second-tier veterans that have one foot out of baseball. They now start the season with no lead-off batter, no speed, and a 50/50 that the player they gave up their lead-off hitter for will actually be productive.

They could have kept simply kept Revere, and signed a known commodity on the FA market instead of getting someone on the downwards trajectory like most winning teams would have done (Most likely would have signed the FA and Upgraded on Revere).

This team plays in the 4th Largest City in North America, and broadcasts to and sells merchandise to a country of 35M. I would bet that they are likely the 2nd or 3rd largest market in North American sports, yet the decisions they make reflect decisions that the Montreal Expos would have made when they were drawing 8K a game at the Big O. At least with the Expos they had a legitimate reason to operate the way they did.

[BOSSY]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

He's not the catalyst but how it was handled is a prime example of why this team will never win it all unless they catch lighting in a bottle one year.

They needed bullpen pitching, so rather than keeping their team together and adding by signing a free agent, they took a good piece off their current roster which simply shifts the hole in the roster to another spot.


So now the decision is made to move Revere for pitching (OK maybe I can see that given the offence last year), but it's not as simple as that. Rather than being open to anyone available, the Blue Jays need to find a specific fit. They need a bullpen pitcher who makes the exact same or less than Revere because of budget constraints, and this pitcher cannot have any amount of term left on his contract. That basically cuts out any pitcher in their prime or a young pitcher who is established. Could they have got that for Revere (or a package containing Revere)? We'll never know, but the option was not available due to finances. That leaves you basically with a bunch of second-tier veterans that have one foot out of baseball. They now start the season with no lead-off batter, no speed, and a 50/50 that the player they gave up their lead-off hitter for will actually be productive.

They could have kept simply kept Revere, and signed a known commodity on the FA market instead of getting someone on the downwards trajectory like most winning teams would have done (Most likely would have signed the FA and Upgraded on Revere).

This team plays in the 4th Largest City in North America, and broadcasts to and sells merchandise to a country of 35M. I would bet that they are likely the 2nd or 3rd largest market in North American sports, yet the decisions they make reflect decisions that the Montreal Expos would have made when they were drawing 8K a game at the Big O. At least with the Expos they had a legitimate reason to operate the way they did.

Very good point...

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I don't care if Revere was traded or not, I was just wondering why Storen was the return. He's looked terribad.