2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread - Page 56 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Sylvanfan · 02-24-2016, 10:08 PM

I think not having Reyes for those last two months was the biggest factor for improvement. Tulowitzky and Goins defence gave the starters plus level defence and hit as good or better than Reyes.

The Jays should be able to hit and have a lot of good defenders. Their record should have been a lot better than it was previous to getting Price. Plus a deeper bullpen post deadline helped too.

Harry Lime · 02-25-2016, 09:47 AM

Sportsnet just reported that Dominic Brown has been signed to a minors deal, and then the link immediately became inactive. Either the sportsnet site is horrible, or the signing didn't go though.

Edit : nope, now from someone reputable.

Quote:

The Blue Jays have agreed to a minor league deal with former Phillies top prospect Domonic Brown, tweets Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca. The Scott Boras client will receive an invitation to Spring Training.

For AAA, I assume.

TheAlpineOracle · 02-25-2016, 01:03 PM

Back up there now. That guy's career sure has taken a nosedive. Good signing.

TheAlpineOracle · 03-01-2016, 12:11 PM

First day of Spring training! Darwin Barney lighting it up. 4 rbi in first 3 innings!

Blaster86 · 03-01-2016, 12:15 PM

BARWIN DARNEY!

It's truly one of the greatest sports names.

TheAlpineOracle · 03-01-2016, 12:20 PM

Hutchinson lets up a homerun on his 8th pitch to........... JP Arencibia.

Tyler · 03-01-2016, 12:28 PM

Can't see Squinty McSquintsalot being a part of this team long-term

Jiggy_12 · 03-03-2016, 10:45 AM

Nice little ESPN feel-good article on the Jays up-the-middle defence.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/...-strong-middle

howard_the_duck · 03-03-2016, 12:32 PM

Great article. I'm very excited for the return of Devon Travis, but with that said I'm really looking forward to watching Goins/Tulo up the middle in the interim.

The Jays fielding in the latter half last year was really a treat to watch.

TheAlpineOracle · 03-03-2016, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Great article. I'm very excited for the return of Devon Travis, but with that said I'm really looking forward to watching Goins/Tulo up the middle in the interim.

The Jays fielding in the latter half last year was really a treat to watch.

It's unfortunate that Goins is such a terrible offensive player, because he is arguably the best 2nd basement from a fielding perspective in the game. He'd be a very valuable every day player on any team (contending or not) if he could just be an average offensive player.

Caged Great · 03-03-2016, 01:30 PM

Goins was worth 2.73 war last year, which ranks 127th best by any player in 2015.

His defense is so good that his noodle bat doesn't matter. His .672 OPS last year is adequate, only slightly below average. If he maintains that, he'll be fine as an every day player. If he can improve, that'd be awesome.

Roof-Daddy · 03-03-2016, 01:38 PM

Also, didn't Goins improve dramatically in the second half of the season at the plate?

TheAlpineOracle · 03-03-2016, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Goins was worth 2.73 war last year, which ranks 127th best by any player in 2015.

His defense is so good that his noodle bat doesn't matter. His .672 OPS last year is adequate, only slightly below average. If he maintains that, he'll be fine as an every day player. If he can improve, that'd be awesome.

Goins is 28/28 years old (can't remember which). I'm not expecting much improvement. I think what you see is what you are going to get at this point.

Jiggy_12 · 03-03-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Goins is 28/28 years old (can't remember which). I'm not expecting much improvement. I think what you see is what you are going to get at this point.

Tell that to Jose Bautista (29), Edwin Encarnacion (29), and Josh Donaldaon (27) when they had their break-out seasons.

Baseball is much different than other sports as far as when players can peak, it's all over the place.

Jiggy_12 · 03-03-2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Also, didn't Goins improve dramatically in the second half of the season at the plate?

Indeed he did. He was almost a completely different player. From a black hole with the bat to an above average offensive contributer.

http://jaysjournal.com/2016/01/13/bl...ins-meets-eye/

edslunch · 03-03-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, he's right.

David Price's Wins above replacement with the Jays was 2.7 which is fantastic but the Jays almost certainly would have made the playoffs without him.

If you want it on a more micro-level...

Price Starts (Run Support) with Toronto: 5, 6, 3(L), 9, 12, 2(L), 5, 11, 9, 4, 10. The L denotes a loss. That is a hell of a lot of run support. Let's assume that instead of Price we had... say... Drew Hutchison making those starts. Hutch had an ERA of 5.57 last year so let's assume in those starts that's how many runs they'd give up (which is a pessimistic view) the Jays would have lost 3 more games then they actually did. The Jays won the division by 6.

David Price is an excellent pitcher but he wasn't the messiah of the Jays 2015 Season.

I think you're overlooking the shot in the arm he gave to the team's psyche. How much more confident were they with him on the mound? How much tighter was the opposing team? It's no coincidence that the Jays' tear started when they picked him up.

It's not just stats....

TheAlpineOracle · 03-03-2016, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Tell that to Jose Bautista (29), Edwin Encarnacion (29), and Josh Donaldaon (27) when they had their break-out seasons.

Baseball is much different than other sports as far as when players can peak, it's all over the place.

All those guys are power hitters, Goins is not. Big difference.

Jiggy_12 · 03-03-2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

All those guys are power hitters, Goins is not. Big difference.

Nobody was talking about power, the issue is can Goins sustain his second half from last season which showed improved patience, bat control, and a slight bump in power. Some players make a small adjustment half way through their careers, like those guys above, and the increased production (power or not) becomes sustainable.

Man, can't you ever just say "Good point, you're right"?

Your pessimism is exhausting.

TheAlpineOracle · 03-03-2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

Nobody was talking about power, the issue is can Goins sustain his second half from last season which showed improved patience, bat control, and a slight bump in power. Some players make a small adjustment half way through their careers, like those guys above, and the increased production (power or not) becomes sustainable.

Man, can't you ever just say "Good point, you're right"?

Your pessimism is exhausting.

Because it's not a good point and factually incorrect. Those guys didn't make adjustments, those guys are pedigree power hitters that moved to a power-hitting stadium at Rogers Center. Donaldson and Edwin produced almost instantly once on a major league roster. In his first two full major league seasons, Edwin hit .276 and .289 with 33 and 25 homeruns respectively. In his first two full major league seasons, Donaldson hit .301 and .255 with 24 and 29 homeruns respectively. Well before Donaldson became a Blue Jay the talk was that if he got out of Oakland with their massive outfield and foul zone, he would be ripping it up. Bautista is a better comparison, but he makes his money with pure power. His batting average and OPS have been very consistent since he became an MLB regular in Pittsburgh. The only thing that has really improved with Bautista is Homeruns and corresponding RBIs.

There's nothing pessimistic about what I said, I said he was likely the best fielding second baseman in baseball and that it was unfortunate that he's a bad hitter and I wouldn't expect him to be anything more than what he has shown to because he's 28 years old going on his 4th season with the Jays. Sure he had a pretty good last month or so of the season last year, but he outright sucked at the plate come the playoffs which suggests to me he is still a very poor hitter since he wilted with a steady diet of good pitching (BA - .139 OBP -.162)

You can call me pessimistic, but your approach of saying everything the Jays do is the greatest thing since sliced bread and everyone is going to have career years as just as tiring. I hope Goins rips it up, because if he did, him or Travis could be a piece we could move at the deadline to fill some holes if they need filling. I would actually prefer that Goins hits well enough to make Travis expendable, but I just can't see that happening. I would prefer an average hitting 2nd base with great defense over a good hitting 2nd basement with mediocre to suspect defense any day of the week.

TheAlpineOracle · 03-03-2016, 04:20 PM

I'll make a commitment here. It seems we keep fighting among ourselves here when we are all Blue Jay fans here and should be playing for the same team. I'll keep my Rogers bashing to a minimum until the earlier of A) If the season goes to #### and B)The dismantling begins in the offseason.

The only caveat is I kept to bitch and bitch loud, each and every time Price plows the Jays this year. I won't be a happy man, I really hate the Red Sox.