[News] UPD: City of Glendale to vote on new arena agreement with Coyotes

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You can write whatever narrative you want, it's what you always do. The fact of the matter is of that list it was all derailed when point #2 was put in a piss poor location.

And how can anyone with half a brain even suggest that because Ottawa can do it, that the Coyotes can? The Senators have struggled with attendance for a Canadian market, if it has that impact up here it's going to be amplified by a significant margin in a less traditional market.

You make a good point.

I never understood why Ottawa built their arena so far away from the downtown. It seems like the Senators are starting to realize they made a mistake:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle22215484/

[troutman]

More Ronda (quite a week for her):

It is believed Olbermann put up the $10K bid so she could tase the Mayor. It really shook up the Mayor when he got tased and Ronda felt really bad.

Then, former councillor Joyce Clark alleged in her blog that Ronda is not only a nurse, but also an employee of the Coyotes. Not confirmed.

Ronda was part of Glendale First (a lobby group trying to convince citizens to keep the Coyotes in Glendale) along with Coyotes Information Minister George Fallar. He is a fan and blogger and allergic to any fact that suggests everything is not ok with the Coyotes.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by troutman

More Ronda (quite a week for her):

It is believed Olbermann put up the $10K bid so she could tase the Mayor. It really shook up the Mayor when he got tased and Ronda felt really bad.

Then, former councillor Joyce Clark alleged in her blog that Ronda is not only a nurse, but also an employee of the Coyotes. Not confirmed.

Ronda was part of Glendale First (a lobby group trying to convince citizens to keep the Coyotes in Glendale) along with Coyotes Information Minister George Fallar. He is a fan and blogger and allergic to any fact that suggests everything is not ok with the Coyotes.

That's pretty awesome.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by vulcan

they failed in phoenix too. It's interesting to hear the excuses for their failure over the years.
They don't have a proper hockey arena. Well they got one.
They don't have a stable ownership. They had one and they have one again.
They don't have a winning team. They had one and that didn't help either.
The economy is bad. Well it's been bad in other places as well and it hasn't always been bad.
It's too far to drive. Ottawa, a traditional hockey market, says hello.

fyp...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

There was a reason it was put in a piss poor location. No one else was willing to have it.

Yeah, this is bull####. Both Mesa and Tempe had land and were willing to make it work for the Cards and Yotes but things got very political when it came to finances. Glendale swooped in and which both teams jumped on. In retrospect it was a horrible business decision for the long term, but the owners made out like bandits n the short term. The owners should have gone with either Tempe or Mesa, and laughed their way to the bank in the long term. Instead Tempe and Mesa each have big malls, and the Chicago Cubs have a spring training facility to die for, which only generates revenues for a month of the year. Politics doomed everyone in this mess. But that is not a surprise. Arizona politics is some of the most ####ed up in the United States.

[sureLoss]

Barroway will be taking a smaller role:

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/sto...y-owner-061515

Six months after he became the majority owner of the Arizona Coyotes, Andrew Barroway will step into a lesser role with the club, multiple sources told FOX Sports Arizona.
A philosophical difference in the financial direction of the team has led IceArizona to buy back some of Barroway's shares. The process has been in the works since the end of last season and should be completed soon, perhaps as soon as this week. Barroway is expected to own more shares than any other member and retain his title as governor, but he will not have controlling interest.
Sources said the decision was a mutual compromise. Barroway will not be leaving IceArizona, as some media outlets have speculated. He will still have a role, he will still be a part of board meetings, and he will still have input.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, this is bull####. Both Mesa and Tempe had land and were willing to make it work for the Cards and Yotes but things got very political when it came to finances. Glendale swooped in and which both teams jumped on. In retrospect it was a horrible business decision for the long term, but the owners made out like bandits n the short term. The owners should have gone with either Tempe or Mesa, and laughed their way to the bank in the long term. Instead Tempe and Mesa each have big malls, and the Chicago Cubs have a spring training facility to die for, which only generates revenues for a month of the year. Politics doomed everyone in this mess. But that is not a surprise. Arizona politics is some of the most ####ed up in the United States.

Not sure Tempe or Mesa would be ideal either. IMO it's the Phoenix university area or Scottsdale (or in between those two somewhere).

[CroFlames]

It would be comical indeed if the Phoenix area got a 3rd arena before the Flames upgrade theirs.

[Hockey Fan #751]

If they put the new rink at Talking Stick Resort, aren't they pretty much making the same mistake all over again? Sure it's closer to Scottsdale, Tempe and Mesa but it's still about the same distance from the Phoenix core area.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not sure Tempe or Mesa would be ideal either. IMO it's the Phoenix university area or Scottsdale (or in between those two somewhere).

Yeah, IIRC Scottsdale turned them down a few times and to me the other logical location, downtown Phoenix wasn't even a consideration.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not sure Tempe or Mesa would be ideal either. IMO it's the Phoenix university area or Scottsdale (or in between those two somewhere).

What are you talking about? Do you know anything about Phoenix? Where is the "Phoenix university" area? Are you talking about Arizona State University or University of Phoenix? There is a huge difference there. One is actually viable, with lands, while the other is an office building that houses salesmen.

Did you know that ASU is in Tempe, and ASU lands spillover into Mesa? Did you know the confluence of all the major ring roads is right on the border of Tempe and Mesa? Did you know that Phoenix, as a city, is completely built out? The same can be said for Scottsdale. The metro area is constrained by reservation lands, meaning the only areas for growth are the far west valley, on the way to Tonopah, or the east valley on the other at to Florence. The mountains and the reservations greatly restrict the flow of traffic and where expansion can go. As far as central locations where there is land and access, Tempe/Mesa is probably it. To do anything in Phoenix itself will require eminent domain to be exercised and a lot of people pissed off. As it is, downtown Phoenix is still a dump and not a great place to be at night. It is also pain in the ass to get in and out of, forcing you to go through some ugly neighborhoods to get back on the 10, 17 or 202.

The majority of money in Phoenix is in North Scottsdale, the Biltmore area, and Paradise Valley. There is plenty of young money in Chandler and Gilbert, so the sports teams are probably best served staying in the 101 corridor, servicing all of the communities listed. The 202 loop catches traffic from the rest of the eastvalley, where the majority of expansion is taking place. Capitalizing on the meeting of 202 and 101 is the key to getting the most people with disposable income to a place with minimal travel times.

For example, all of the places listed are all within 30 minutes of the confluence of 202 and 101. For comparison sake, it is over an hour to the current arena from Gilbert, 45 minutes from N Scottsdale, 50 minutes from Paradise Valley, and so on. This is why this is the only viable location for these facilities. Even if you don't think so. The west valley has proven to be a disaster. They should go central and where the infrastructure can support such projects. That is Tempe/Mesa, but only for a very short time. Available lands are drying up and fast. The time to act was five or ten years ago.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

If they put the new rink at Talking Stick Resort, aren't they pretty much making the same mistake all over again? Sure it's closer to Scottsdale, Tempe and Mesa but it's still about the same distance from the Phoenix core area.

No offense, but that IS the core area of "The Valley"

Central PHX isn't affluent, outside of Paradise Valley.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

What are you talking about? Do you know anything about Phoenix? Where is the "Phoenix university" area? Are you talking about Arizona State University or University of Phoenix? There is a huge difference there. One is actually viable, with lands, while the other is an office building that houses salesmen.

Did you know that ASU is in Tempe, and ASU lands spillover into Mesa? Did you know the confluence of all the major ring roads is right on the border of Tempe and Mesa? Did you know that Phoenix, as a city, is completely built out? The same can be said for Scottsdale. The metro area is constrained by reservation lands, meaning the only areas for growth are the far west valley, on the way to Tonopah, or the east valley on the other at to Florence. The mountains and the reservations greatly restrict the flow of traffic and where expansion can go. As far as central locations where there is land and access, Tempe/Mesa is probably it. To do anything in Phoenix itself will require eminent domain to be exercised and a lot of people pissed off. As it is, downtown Phoenix is still a dump and not a great place to be at night. It is also pain in the ass to get in and out of, forcing you to go through some ugly neighborhoods to get back on the 10, 17 or 202.

The majority of money in Phoenix is in North Scottsdale, the Biltmore area, and Paradise Valley. There is plenty of young money in Chandler and Gilbert, so the sports teams are probably best served staying in the 101 corridor, servicing all of the communities listed. The 202 loop catches traffic from the rest of the eastvalley, where the majority of expansion is taking place. Capitalizing on the meeting of 202 and 101 is the key to getting the most people with disposable income to a place with minimal travel times.

For example, all of the places listed are all within 30 minutes of the confluence of 202 and 101. For comparison sake, it is over an hour to the current arena from Gilbert, 45 minutes from N Scottsdale, 50 minutes from Paradise Valley, and so on. This is why this is the only viable location for these facilities. Even if you don't think so. The west valley has proven to be a disaster. They should go central and where the infrastructure can support such projects. That is Tempe/Mesa, but only for a very short time. Available lands are drying up and fast. The time to act was five or ten years ago.

I know a lot about the Phoenix area, thanks. I've been there a to (always staying in Scottsdale, but travelling all over). I've been to the arena, been to the stadium, been to the ballpark as well. And yes, I meant ASU.

I am simply giving locations where an arena would have worked (and might now if there's availability). I know Tempe and Mesa isn't far from ASU. I just think the money is further north. I was specifically thinking east of the 101. however, I'm not sure about the reservation borders there. Or North Scottsdale, which, every time I drive around there, seems to have open lands (though more expensive I imagine).

[ernie]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

It is curious that the season ticket drive resulted in 10000 interested parties in Vegas and the hockey capacity for Orleans arena is 9500. Hmmm.

Was thinking maybe QC but all the arguments about divisional alignment kill that idea. Will have to wait for the islanders I suppose once the Brooklyn experiment fails.

Why would the Brooklyn experiment fail? Nassau Coliseum is horrible to get to with public transportation. There is no train stop nearby and you need to take a cab from the nearest station. Or you could take the bus. The location is simply terrible.

Brooklyn opens up attendance possibilities for many more people. And those that traveled to Nassau will likely have no issues traveling to Barclay's. Plenty of parking in the area for those that want to drive but most importantly 11 lines have a stop right at the building. With proper management I'm sure they will have special trains on game days so people don't even need to drive down to the building.

Barclay's isn't ideal for hockey but it's also not 40 some odd years old and falling apart (and Nassua is falling apart).

So I think the opposite. I think that it will end up being a great building to experience a game in.

[automaton 3]

Seating capacity for hockey in Barclay's looks to be 15,795 but with hundreds of obstructed view seats and some other seats apparently placed at the wrong angle for comfortable viewing. The jumbotron is over one of the blue lines. Does not sound ideal at all.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I know a lot about the Phoenix area, thanks. I've been there a to (always staying in Scottsdale, but travelling all over). I've been to the arena, been to the stadium, been to the ballpark as well. And yes, I meant ASU.

I am simply giving locations where an arena would have worked (and might now if there's availability). I know Tempe and Mesa isn't far from ASU. I just think the money is further north. I was specifically thinking east of the 101. however, I'm not sure about the reservation borders there. Or North Scottsdale, which, every time I drive around there, seems to have open lands (though more expensive I imagine).

Come on man, your knowledge of Phoenix is almost non-existent. You've got the tourist perspective and know nothing about the metro area itself. Just admit it. You had no idea where Tempe or Mesa were, and dismissed them accordingly. You tossed out the "Phoenix university" area, completely unaware that ASU is in Tempe and butts up against Mesa. Tempe also butts up against Scottsdale, but the lowest rent area of Scottsdale imaginable. I guess in your extensive travels around the valley it never dawned on you there were reasons for the vast expanses of empty land? The Salt River and Gila River reservations weren't obvious? The network of protected lands in National Forests and Regional Preserves prevents a lot of the other lands being developed.

Back on where a new arena stands a chance, the Suns and Coyotes should be talking with ASU. They are going to be burying ASU Karsten in the next few years and that land is prime. The parcel where the 11th through 17th holes is the perfect size for a new arena. It is also across from Tempe Marketplace where there is plenty of restaurants and shopping. This would leave the rest of the course lands, on the south side of Rio Salado, for ASU development of new buildings, housing, and an entertainment district. This would make the most sense. The biggest challenge would be getting the state to agree to a change to 202 to facilitate on/off ramps at McLintock.

The next logical, but most problematic location, would be on the parcel on the north west side of 101/202. This is Salt River tribal lands, but there have been rumblings about them developing it to draw more traffic to Casino Arizona. I'm not sure how this would go over with any of the municipalities or with the league, but it would be a great location. The sovereignty issues make this location a real nightmare to consider.

Based on the options, I think the Coyotes are screwed. I just can't see any location being ready quick enough to save the team. I think a new arena in Seattle is more likely than another arena in Phoenix right now. Unless ASU bites the bullet and builds something for their team, with the idea of using the Coyotes as a revenue stream, I don't see a local government stepping up at the moment.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by New Era

Come on man, your knowledge of Phoenix is almost non-existent. You've got the tourist perspective and know nothing about the metro area itself. Just admit it. You had no idea where Tempe or Mesa were, and dismissed them accordingly. You tossed out the "Phoenix university" area, completely unaware that ASU is in Tempe and butts up against Mesa. Tempe also butts up against Scottsdale, but the lowest rent area of Scottsdale imaginable. I guess in your extensive travels around the valley it never dawned on you there were reasons for the vast expanses of empty land? The Salt River and Gila River reservations weren't obvious? The network of protected lands in National Forests and Regional Preserves prevents a lot of the other lands being developed.

Back on where a new arena stands a chance, the Suns and Coyotes should be talking with ASU. They are going to be burying ASU Karsten in the next few years and that land is prime. The parcel where the 11th through 17th holes is the perfect size for a new arena. It is also across from Tempe Marketplace where there is plenty of restaurants and shopping. This would leave the rest of the course lands, on the south side of Rio Salado, for ASU development of new buildings, housing, and an entertainment district. This would make the most sense. The biggest challenge would be getting the state to agree to a change to 202 to facilitate on/off ramps at McLintock.

The next logical, but most problematic location, would be on the parcel on the north west side of 101/202. This is Salt River tribal lands, but there have been rumblings about them developing it to draw more traffic to Casino Arizona. I'm not sure how this would go over with any of the municipalities or with the league, but it would be a great location. The sovereignty issues make this location a real nightmare to consider.

Based on the options, I think the Coyotes are screwed. I just can't see any location being ready quick enough to save the team. I think a new arena in Seattle is more likely than another arena in Phoenix right now. Unless ASU bites the bullet and builds something for their team, with the idea of using the Coyotes as a revenue stream, I don't see a local government stepping up at the moment.

I've actually been in both Tempe and Mesa. I've got quite a few friends with places in Mesa (though more in Scottsdale and one in Paradise Valley). They both seemed more industrial or low rent to me. The flea market was especially nice.

The university area is, to me, just that - the uni district, which is very nice, and, to me, it's own area, even if it is within the Tempe borders. When I said Tempe and Mesa, I was meaning the south (just like when I say Scottsdale I am usually talking about the north). As I have said, I've been in both and didn't really like them.

As for the rest of the condescending post, I said already I wasn't commenting on availability - I was commenting on preferred location in my opinion. I have no knowledge of land availability or prices or development issues. I admit it - I was putting pins in the map according only to what I could see when I've visited and have driven around. But I never mentioned the Gila Valley or Salt River reservations - what I said was I was unsure about the border.

And yes, it's a tourists perspective.

[troutman]

Coyotes vote spurs Glendale council recall push

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...push/28795287/

Four Glendale City Council members who voted last week to rescind the city's $225 million agreement with the Arizona Coyotes are being targeted for recall.

Glendale real-estate agent Larry Feiner on Monday requested documents to begin recall efforts against Vice Mayor Ian Hugh and City Council members Jamie Aldama, Lauren Tolmachoff and Bart Turner. All four voted last week with Mayor Jerry Weiers to terminate the Coyotes' lease and management contract for Gila River Arena.

Weiers is not being targeted because it would require roughly 18,000 signatures on petitions to recall the mayor, while it takes only about 1,000 signatures for each of the council members, Feiner said.

[troutman]

Glendale’s city council hands Coyotes’ owners a way out and potential profits

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle24950942/

If, as the city promised, it follows through on ending the lease, the Coyotes will be free to move and negotiate with a lineup of suitor cities and potential owners, thereby driving the value of a franchise LeBlanc and a largely Canadian group of investors bought from the NHL for $175-million to well north of $400-million.

However, what really matters here is that Glendale council gave the Coyotes an out – undoubtedly because the city of 260,000 simply cannot afford to keep paying the $15-million – at a time when there are now other cities available. Even more important, according to an NHL governor who requested not to be identified because he is not allowed to discuss league business publicly, Glendale council burned a most important bridge.

No one, the governor said, worked harder than Bettman to keep the Coyotes in Glendale for the past decade. This may have had more to do with NHL broadcast and marketing contracts keeping a major television market such as Phoenix in the fold than love for Glendale, but Bettman fought hard. Now, given his remarks following the council decision, the commissioner is most unhappy with the city. Maybe unhappy enough to let Barroway and LeBlanc hit the jackpot by selling or moving the team.

But even if Bettman isn’t keen on a move, he may have no choice. If the Coyotes owners are brave enough to tangle with Bettman, they certainly have a strong argument that the league cannot legally bar a move because they were kicked out of their home through no fault of their own.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by troutman

Glendale’s city council hands Coyotes’ owners a way out and potential profits

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle24950942/

If, as the city promised, it follows through on ending the lease, the Coyotes will be free to move and negotiate with a lineup of suitor cities and potential owners, thereby driving the value of a franchise LeBlanc and a largely Canadian group of investors bought from the NHL for $175-million to well north of $400-million.

I imagine they will play one more season in Glendale at least (via an injunction). Then they will settle on damages, and sell.

The recall is dumb, and potentially muddies this plan if it makes the councillors have to stay the course in order to defend the decision.