[News] Leafs hire Babcock (8yr contract, $50 million)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I omitted Clarkson by mistake, you got me... it is an even worse contract. Nitpick the spirit of the post how ever much you want, I guess I should've said Phaneuf has one of the 5 worst contracts in hockey. That sounds so much better, I'm sure he'll net a better return because Clarkson exists.

Maybe the Leafs can get another Nathan Horton in return? I hear Laddy Smid and Ben Hanowski are available.

Maybe they can trade for Voynov and hope he gets permanently suspended.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I omitted Clarkson by mistake, you got me... it is an even worse contract. Nitpick the spirit of the post how ever much you want, I guess I should've said Phaneuf has one of the 5 worst contracts in hockey. That sounds so much better, I'm sure he'll net a better return because Clarkson exists.

Maybe the Leafs can get another Nathan Horton in return? I hear Laddy Smid and Ben Hanowski are available.

Dustin Brown, Jeff Petry, Brooks Orpik, Niskanen, Bobby Ryan, Letang, Jordan Staal, Johan Franzen, Vincent Lecalvalier, Stephen Weiss, Travis Zajac,Bryan Bickell Dave Bolland (You'd hear much more about it if the Leafs gave him that deal) You could go on forever.

And we'll add more this summer when Dion is traded.

Dion Phaneuf right now is the best NHL D-Man realistically available.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

I guess since the Leafs traded Clarkson he's no longer overpaid.

Nonis said 5 teams called at the deadline. More will in the Summer.

You guys can call him crap, blah, blah, blah. He's a big time minutes muncher who has very good stats against the league's top players.

Oh yeah, and remember I said Letang wasn't a true #1? Pittsburgh is apparently looking to move him.

Nothing wrong with Dion for 7 million when guys like Orpik get 5.5 million+. Franson will get 5.5-6 million this summer.

Missed the ninja edit on this post, I guess I responded too fast.

Don't care what Nonis said, it's unverifiable. Even if only one team approached with lukewarm interest, he sure as hell isn't going to say that to the media a weaken his already precarious bargaining position even further. Nonis may have been one of the worst GMs in the last couple decades, but I'm sure even he understands the basics of negotiation.

Orpik is not much worse than Phaneuf and gets paid significantly less, though you're right, Brooks is probably worth very little in a trade, just like Neon Dion.

Franson hasn't signed yet, but he'll likely be another nigh immovable contact a la Phaneuf. Does this somehow make Dion's situation better?

I never said Dion was crap, far from it. I think he's a solid 3/4 guy that is overpaid to the tune of $2m per year with way too much term. I would take Dion here if he was signed for 2 less years and made $5.5m max. Otherwise he's just poisonous to a GOOD team's salary structure.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Missed the ninja edit on this post, I guess I responded too fast.

Don't care what Nonis said, it's unverifiable. Even if only one team approached with lukewarm interest, he sure as hell isn't going to say that to the media a weaken his already precarious bargaining position even further. Nonis may have been one of the worst GMs in the last couple decades, but I'm sure even he understands the basics of negotiation.

Orpik is not much worse than Phaneuf and gets paid significantly less, though you're right, Brooks is probably worth very little in a trade, just like Neon Dion.

Franson hasn't signed yet, but he'll likely be another nigh immovable contact a la Phaneuf. Does this somehow make Dion's situation better?

I never said Dion was crap, far from it. I think he's a solid 3/4 guy that is overpaid to the tune of $2m per year with way too much term. I would take Dion here if he was signed for 2 less years and made $5.5m max. Otherwise he's just poisonous to a GOOD team's salary structure.

Oh he is so far from Dion it's not even funny.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Dustin Brown, Jeff Petry, Brooks Orpik, Niskanen, Bobby Ryan, Letang. You could go on forever.

And we'll add more this summer when Dion is traded.

Dion Phaneuf right now is the best NHL D-Man realistically available.

Yandle could be moved easily. Franson will either be available or the Preds will move a d-man. Seabrook could be moved.

Anyway Phaneuf is a 3/4 defenceman on most teams, so you are saying most teams don't have a 3/4 guy who could realistically be moved? I'd trade Wideman for a decent return, and I really like what he brought this year.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Dustin Brown, Jeff Petry, Brooks Orpik, Niskanen, Bobby Ryan, Letang, Jordan Staal, Johan Franzen, Vincent Lecalvalier, Stephen Weiss, Travis Zajac,Bryan Bickell Dave Bolland (You'd hear much more about it if the Leafs gave him that deal) You could go on forever.

And we'll add more this summer when Dion is traded.

Dion Phaneuf right now is the best NHL D-Man realistically available.

Yes those are all bad contracts, but to varying degrees. Most of those guys are right in the Phaneuf swing zone: overpaid with their best days behind them, however they all don't have huge term remaining, which is absolutely key to this whole debate. The only ones I would say are just as bad/worse as Dion's are Ryan and Bolland. Brown is close, but he's a winner and has a manageable AAV. Ryan's is brutal though, you're right and Bolland's is pretty bad too. The others you mentioned have far less term remaining, which as I said is key. Term is more detrimental to a players trade value when combined with a high AAV. Dion would be worth a ton with 1-3 years left. But 7? That's just ridiculous.

In a list of worst contracts, I'd rank them like this:

1) Richards
2) Clarkson
3) Ryan
4) Bolland
5) Phaneuf
6) Semin (his term is a least workable, you could buy him out in 2 years)
7) Brown

The rest in order of least term remaining combined with actual usefulness as a player, AAV is secondary to those considerations. Personal circumstances need to be taken into account as well. Lecalvalier is rumored to retire/walk away from his contract after his bonus is paid and I wouldn't include Franzen though as he's going to be LTIR until it's over. A lot of those guys are actually good players that are slightly overpaid with slightly too much term. Niskanen, Staal, Petry and Zajac are all noticeable as decent players on bad deals (not terrible) that could be squeezed onto the right team.

Guys like Bickell and Weiss aren't in the same league with far less years left on their deals. I take a healthy Letang over Phaneuf 10/10 times, even at a higher AAV, he's just better IMO especially if paired with the right guy. I'm willing to give him some extra leeway and see if he can fully recover from his stroke and recent injury issues before I write him off.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Oh he is so far from Dion it's not even funny.

Why? Is it because Phaneuf is a 30 point guy? Are his mediocre and underachieving point totals enough to declare Orpik "so far from Dion" when there is no way Dion is significantly better (or better at all) than Orpik defensively. At best, they're probably equal defensively but that is giving Dion the benefit of the doubt as his defensive play has long been suspect while Brooks has been a respected defensive defenseman for years in this league. Orpik also makes $1.5m less with less term. Remember, I wasn't saying Oripik is a better player, but taking into account contract status, it's closer than you think in terms of trade value.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Yes those are all bad contracts, but to varying degrees. Most of those guys are right in the Phaneuf swing zone: overpaid with their best days behind them, however they all don't have huge term remaining, which is absolutely key to this whole debate. The only ones I would say are just as bad/worse as Dion's are Ryan and Bolland. Brown is close, but he's a winner and has a manageable AAV. Ryan's is brutal though, you're right and Bolland's is pretty bad too. The others you mentioned have far less term remaining, which as I said is key. Term is more detrimental to a players trade value when combined with a high AAV. Dion would be worth a ton with 1-3 years left. But 7? That's just ridiculous.

In a list of worst contracts, I'd rank them like this:

1) Richards
2) Clarkson
3) Ryan
4) Bolland
5) Phaneuf
6) Semin (his term is a least workable, you could buy him out in 2 years)
7) Brown

The rest in order of least term remaining combined with actual usefulness as a player, AAV is secondary to those considerations. Personal circumstances need to be taken into account as well. Lecalvalier is rumored to retire/walk away from his contract after his bonus is paid and I wouldn't include Franzen though as he's going to be LTIR until it's over. A lot of those guys are actually good players that are slightly overpaid with slightly too much term. Niskanen, Staal, Petry and Zajac are all noticeable as decent players on bad deals (not terrible) that could be squeezed onto the right team.

Guys like Bickell and Weiss aren't in the same league with far less years left on their deals. I take a healthy Letang over Phaneuf 10/10 times, even at a higher AAV, he's just better IMO especially if paired with the right guy. I'm willing to give him some extra leeway and see if he can fully recover from his stroke and recent injury issues before I write him off.

But they are because Dion can contribute and they don't,.

[Da_Chief]

Stop bumping this you troll. Move on already.

[JohnnySkittles]

Then stop engaging him

[Da_Chief]

Stop bumping this you troll. Move on already.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Stop bumping this you troll. Move on already.

I was going to say something about asking him to be quiet because no one cares about the Leafs but then I was talking with my wife and she says to me she says, oh before I get to that, she doesnt know that Babcock got hired because no one cares about the Leafs. Also I probably should refrain from asking people not to talk anymore.