2015 Alberta Budget Discussion

[Ozy_Flame]

User fees don't have to be so black and white. The office administrator and doctor should have the discretion to charge repeat patients for a user fee, especially if any subsequent visits are because of ignoring a doctors previous diagnosis or preventative measures, which happens all the time. You'd be surprised at how many people don't follow their doctors advise like a checklist. Actually, you shouldn't be surprised.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

muta, fair enough its just the public perception that wait lines are caused by people "wasting resources and time" bugs me.

the boy complaining about a headache may have a brain tumor

the girl with a sore tummy may have meningitis

the dad with a sore leg may end up having cancer (personal experience) my uncle went to doctor with sore leg and it was found he had "soft tissue sarcoma" he was dead 6 months later

As a Canadian it is within your right and privilege to see a doctor about every sniffle or ache and pain and I for one have no problem paying my share so everyone can access this.

That's great, and they should use the system then. The ones who are "wasting resources and time" are likely the ones who know that they're doing it just because they can.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I get what you're saying, but I think your getting lost in the grass here. Why would they do that, their job is primarily to hold the government accountable, not to act as a shadow government.

Where the fall off point comes is during an election where the opposition should be getting into building their platform, not during a regular sitting in the house of commons.

And why as an opposition party would I give away my election strategy in points prior to a writ being dropped?

The opposition should give an indication of where they stand on issues during seating, (something that a lot of opposition parties federally and provincially can't do). But Their job is not to release shadow budgets etc.

The opposition needs to hold the governments feet to the fire and force them to answer questions about their policies and laws.

I know you're right, its just something we haven't seen in a long time. Surely the opposition agrees with some aspects of what the sitting party does, but all they ever do is attack.

I think its just frustration carrying over from the WRP not doing what you suggest last campaign and sticking to a "PC's suck" platform...and rightfully so getting routed at the polls as a result.

[Flash Walken]

Somehow I think this idea that there are people who go out of their way to abuse the medical system is similar to the idea that there is rampant voter fraud out there.

I know the stereotypes people think abuse these sorts of things. Mentally ill, poor, drug addicts.

Maybe it would be cheaper to expand services to this group rather than charge a user fee that won't be collected from someone who is mentally illy, poor or a drug addict?

From the ER doctors i've talked to here in BC, they'd welcome more mental health funding to cut down on the amount of people using the ER as mental health services.

[robbie111]

What if corporations were given incentive (a slightly lower Corporate tax rate) to reinvest profits in Alberta and those choosing not to would face a slightly higher Corporate tax rate. Would keep the economy moving with reinvestment.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by robbie111

What if corporations were given incentive (a slightly lower Corporate tax rate) to reinvest profits in Alberta and those choosing not to would face a slightly higher Corporate tax rate. Would keep the economy moving with reinvestment.

This idea, as with most tax issues, would be way too hard to implement in practice. Ask 10 people to define "reinvest profits in Alberta" and you'll get 10 different answers.

Something that many people may not know about corporate tax, is that the lower rates are available to only active corporations, earning profits through business. Passive corporations are taxed at a much higher rate upfront (though they get the money back once distributed to shareholders). The low corporate rate already encourages business profits in Alberta (and Canada).

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

User fees don't have to be so black and white. The office administrator and doctor should have the discretion to charge repeat patients for a user fee, especially if any subsequent visits are because of ignoring a doctors previous diagnosis or preventative measures, which happens all the time. You'd be surprised at how many people don't follow their doctors advise like a checklist. Actually, you shouldn't be surprised.

Any proof of this or is this just conjecture and anecdotal.

I find it hilarious that people who apparently don't go to the clinic unless they really need to (which I assume is not very often), can tell by these infrequent visits that other people are abusing the system. How would you even know?

I don't abuse the system, but have sat in the waiting room for things. You might look at me from across the room and think "that guy is totally healthy, why is he clogging up the system." Well my back is a mess. Its to the point where I need surgery and from time to time have to go in and get things reviewed or get some super-powerful medication that I can't just take care of on my own. Is it abuse of the system? I don't think so...I have no real choice here. But to some people they might think "why not just book an appointment and see a doctor in a few weeks". Life happens though, and that's not always an option.

I also have a hard time thinking that people just go to the clinic and sit there day after day without needing help. This has to be such a small percentage of the population just because its such a soul crushing experience to sit there for a couple of hours. I can't see many people wanting to repeat that.

[Jason14h]

This has to be such a small percentage of the population just because its such a soul crushing experience to sit there for a couple of hours. I can't see many people wanting to repeat that.

It's the people with nothing better to do just looking for human contact!!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It's the people with nothing better to do just looking for human contact!!

Say there are 30 thousand people in the province who do this, a huge number to pretend just go to the doctor for human contact.

That's not even 1 percent of the province.

It's a miniscule amount.

It pretty much isn't worth talking about.

[killer_carlson]

not to mention that curing illness early saves a whole lot more money than catching it late.

[Harry Lime]

I was dropping off a package at a doctors office about a year ago, and had to do a double check at the signs taped to the front counter. One was a 'be sure and set up your next appointment' and next to it a diagram that pretty clearly indicated a monthly checkup. It might have been a simple translation issue, but adding a high frequency check up to the stubbed toes and sniffles seems to be abuse of the system, engendered by some neighborhood doctors themselves.

Everything on the papers headline this morning seemed to read as a 'tax the masses' and ignore the affluent.

I also took the survey that the gov't sent out to gauge the people's desires, and I really wasn't impressed with some of the questions. They would have one unacceptable answer, with the option of another unacceptable answer, and no opportunity to not pick one of them. A clear attempt to construct a mandate to do something that would avoid hurting their power base.

[Muta]

Well, my doctor and nurse friends also tell me that people come in for the most minimal and insignificant of things, so it's not just my observation, either. My idea could provide funding, and lower wait times... something that everyone would like to see regardless.

That's okay if you guys don't agree though, I couldn't really care less.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, my doctor and nurse friends also tell me that people come in for the most minimal and insignificant of things, so it's not just my observation, either. My idea could provide funding, and lower wait times... something that everyone would like to see regardless.

That's okay if you guys don't agree though, I couldn't really care less.

User fees are not a new idea, and you're right on that it could provide some of those things. Right now though, it's too difficult constitutionally to apply as it technically restricts access to those who can't afford it.

A better idea is a streaming triage. There can be nurses or other healthcare practitioners directing those who don't need a physician to other care. The trouble now is simply that the gatekeeper for services is the most expensive and hardest to see. That part could be dealt with by triage.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

User fees are not a new idea, and you're right on that it could provide some of those things. Right now though, it's too difficult constitutionally to apply as it technically restricts access to those who can't afford it.

A better idea is a streaming triage. There can be nurses or other healthcare practitioners directing those who don't need a physician to other care. The trouble now is simply that the gatekeeper for services is the most expensive and hardest to see. That part could be dealt with by triage.

Sounds like you'd have to hire more nurses.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sounds like you'd have to hire more nurses.

Not necessarily. Reduced visits would ameliorate that considerably

[V]

I don't think most people would have an issue with more nurses that could empty an emergency room of the trivial cases. I once sat for 5 hours with my son at ACH because we thought he had broken his arm. Turns out it was nursemaid elbow. Had I known that I could have fixed it myself. Had a nurse taken one look at him they would have known and fixed it in a heartbeat. We would have been gone and allowed our spot to be taken by someone more deserving.

I don't know if it's a liability issue, or what, but it seems so bloody simple.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Bottom Line on the budget:

I had the chance to buy playoff tickets, now I have health care premiums instead. You know who doesn't have to think twice about playoff tickets? Corporate season ticket holders. They took zero hits. Disgusting.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Bottom Line on the budget:

I had the chance to buy playoff tickets, now I have health care premiums instead. You know who doesn't have to think twice about playoff tickets? Corporate season ticket holders. They took zero hits. Disgusting.

If you have to decide between paying health care premiums and playoff tickets, it is likely for the best that you don't buy playoff tickets, because you obviously can't afford them.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, my doctor and nurse friends also tell me that people come in for the most minimal and insignificant of things, so it's not just my observation, either. My idea could provide funding, and lower wait times... something that everyone would like to see regardless.

That's okay if you guys don't agree though, I couldn't really care less.

There are cases in which someone comes in with something minor, but it is moreoften the exception than the rule. Most people don't have the urge to sit in a waiting room for hours, to go back to a bed for hours, to see a doctor for minutes to get told to go home and not put things all the way up there anymore

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

If you have to decide between paying health care premiums and playoff tickets, it is likely for the best that you don't buy playoff tickets, because you obviously can't afford them.

But the bank on TV told me that I'm richer than I think?!