Canadian charged with obstruction for not giving his phone password to CBSA

[Slava]

Originally Posted by speede5

It's a power trip, I'll play along because I have to, but these guys have a tendency to power trip. Might as well get used to the erosion of privacy. Harper's gonna be around for a while and it will only get worse.

I don't think that this has anything to do with whose in power at the time. Its the nature of the world these days.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by speede5

It's a power trip, I'll play along because I have to, but these guys have a tendency to power trip. Might as well get used to the erosion of privacy. Harper's gonna be around for a while and it will only get worse.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Do you frequently get sent for a secondary search by CBSA?

I can honestly say I have never had a second look at me or my customs declaration card. No grief, no bag searching, no phone searching.

Yeah I agree. I have never been stopped, searched, or had a second look anytime I have crossed the border. Where I am with my family, driving, at the airport, alone or with buddies, sober/drunk/hungover, never.

I wonder if the CBSA are actually trained to identify possible risks....I wonder...

[Doodlebug]

As I also clearly watch Border Security too much, this seems to the case law that the CBSA will site if you refuse to provide the password. Stems from a truck driver in Ontario who was caught with child porn on his laptop while crossing the border. In one episode of Border Security, a CBSA supervisor actually printed this decision to show to the traveller.

http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/0...-oncj-25.shtml

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I personally don't like the search regulations but it is what it is.

Cameron asked an interesting question in the first post though. Regarding search and access to phones, tablets and computers do you only have to provide access (unlock) the device or do you have to provide access to all personal files and communications on that device? I wonder if there is an app that could basically lock access to all apps, messages and files while providing access to the device?

This case will determine if you need to provide the password, it has never been tested in court before. I predict that the ruling will be that the CBSA retains the authority to examine electronic devices and that they can ask the owner to provide the password. If the password is not provided, they can seize the device until the password can be broken or a warrant secured to compel compliance. Again, just a prediction, not the law as it stands.

They just do a cursory inspection of pictures/files/texts/anything easy to find. Accessing locked or encrypted apps hasn't been tested in court either, but it would stand to reason that the ruling would follow general device access.

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

As I also clearly watch Border Security too much, this seems to the case law that the CBSA will site if you refuse to provide the password. Stems from a truck driver in Ontario who was caught with child porn on his laptop while crossing the border. In one episode of Border Security, a CBSA supervisor actually printed this decision to show to the traveller.

http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/0...-oncj-25.shtml

Leask deals with the authority of the CBSA to conduct searches in the first place, there is no mention of a password on the laptop in question or Leask being asked to provide one.

[serratedmuffin]

I've been pulled aside in the secondary checkup twice. First time I was asked to unlock my phone and went through it. I don't take pictures or videos but managed to have one from the wedding in the dominican I went to. Pretty sure that saved me from a lot more hassle. I didn't have anything to hide but it still feels like a violation to me. This was all because I don't like checking baggage and went for 10 days with a carry on.

[TorqueDog]

BlackBerry Enterprise Server-activated devices have this awesome feature called 'Duress notification' where if you're forced to unlock your device against your will, a notification goes out immediately to an e-mail address (person, distribution list, etc.). Theoretically, someone could enter their password in duress mode, and their work administrator could lock and wipe the device right then and there.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Can this happen, say, if it my phone is a company phone containing proprietary information and highly sensitive documents? My company is a global giant and treat these issues very seriously. We are instructed (and have signed) contractual agreements that our phone's password cannot be divulged or phone gained access to third parties.

What would happen under these circumstances?

[FlamesAddiction]

Maybe the password was something embarrassing. I had problems with my AMEX a while ago and had to give up my password to the rep. It was kind of embarrassing to tell her that my password was "6969".

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Foreign nationals is one thing, but why are they going through the phones of Canadian citizens?

Good point. Canadians would never smuggle things into canada or have illegal documents on their computers.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by speede5

It's a power trip, I'll play along because I have to, but these guys have a tendency to power trip. Might as well get used to the erosion of privacy. Harper's gonna be around for a while and it will only get worse.

Why is it that any time rank and file officers do their duty and actually try to enforce laws people automatically call it a power trip.

These guys have a tough job, some are good, some are bad, but blanket statements like that are just silly.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

Can this happen, say, if it my phone is a company phone containing proprietary information and highly sensitive documents? My company is a global giant and treat these issues very seriously. We are instructed (and have signed) contractual agreements that our phone's password cannot be divulged or phone gained access to third parties.

What would happen under these circumstances?

Well if unlocking your phone for CBSA staff will get you fired, then you shouldn't carry it across the border.

Aside from that, that agreement doesn't hold any water as far as the CBSA is concerned. If your employer made you sign an agreement saying you couldn't divulge any illegal operations within the company, that wouldn't hold up either.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Good point. Canadians would never smuggle things into canada or have illegal documents on their computers.

I guess I find the entire thing moot in the age of the internet.

I can understand foreign nationals who are lying about working or how long they plan on staying.

Outside of hiding something in the body of the phone, what should the CBSA be looking for in the phone of a citizen? Child porn or drug information sure, but other than that?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I guess I find the entire thing moot in the age of the internet.

I can understand foreign nationals who are lying about working or how long they plan on staying.

Outside of hiding something in the body of the phone, what should the CBSA be looking for in the phone of a citizen? Child porn or drug information sure, but other than that?

Yeah, exactly. You just gave two examples of data that they could/should check for. Kind of defeats your argument that the whole thing is moot, doesn't it?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, exactly. You just gave two examples of data that they could/should check for. Kind of defeats your argument that the whole thing is moot, doesn't it?

Not really. Anyone with a shred of intelligence would wipe it from the devices prior to crossing the border. Isn't the border guards job to prevent the inflow of illegal items? If there is no border on electronic information its kind of pointless.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Well if unlocking your phone for CBSA staff will get you fired, then you shouldn't carry it across the border.

Aside from that, that agreement doesn't hold any water as far as the CBSA is concerned. If your employer made you sign an agreement saying you couldn't divulge any illegal operations within the company, that wouldn't hold up either.

So you're saying people don't travel cross border with your laptop and phones for business?

What illegal operation? Proprietary data isn't illegal. What I'm asking is, is there a procedure people can follow should something like that occur?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by temple5

But I would under no circumstances unlock any electronic device for anyone - if they asked I would put the password wrong 10x to reset the device and lose whatever I had rather than have some high school graduate look through my items.

This is actually pretty damn smart.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by pylon

This is actually pretty damn smart.

Till you get detained for obstruction.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Oh man, an old childhood friend of mine is a CBSA agent. If they let people like him look through your personal electronics, that is just sad.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Not really. Anyone with a shred of intelligence would wipe it from the devices prior to crossing the border. Isn't the border guards job to prevent the inflow of illegal items? If there is no border on electronic information its kind of pointless.

Yeah, except that the fact that they catch people with illegal stuff on their computers would seem to indicate that perhaps the kinds of people that are in possesion of that type of data aren't particuarly intelligent.

Just because there is another way of sending that data across borders, and just because you can't stop the problem competely doens't mean you shouldn't have the tools to prevent at least some of it, and to catch some of the folks who are using, producing and/or transporting it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Because Canadian citizens can still be involved in illegal activity?

I would bet the CBSA agent suspected him of smuggling something into the country.

In his phone? Their job is to make sure I'm not bringing anything in illegal on my person, that's it full stop. They want to be cops they need to be held to the same account cops are, ie go get a warrant.