Alberta PST discussion

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

A similar idea is like how GST was 7% only a few years ago, and it got bumped down to 5%. If we has a PST of 2% it would be just like what we had but could potential generate billions over the course of a year, the only difference is that our old school "GST" now gives money back to the province.

I have said for a while that the smartest thing the Alberta government could have done would have been to implement a 2% PST when the GST was reduced to 5%.

Would have been a no change situation for people and would have led to a pretty good chunk of change for Alberta over the last 10 years that would have really supported our lacking infrastructure.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem. Adding more money to the situation just increases the scale of the problem.

I love how this can just asserted like dogma with no data, evidence or context. Mind numbing. But I guess we're in the business of telling ourselves what we want to hear not actually dealing with problems.

[Byrns]

If they put in a PST then they should eliminate the provincial income tax.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by eddly

We were renting in Evanston. Finally buying a house this year. With the low availability of suitable rentals you take what you can get with or without schools. It just doesn't make sense to me that their would be essentially no plan for schools being built in a timely manner.

While I agree that it would be nice for there to be plans for schools, that isn't always realistic. For a long term spending perspective, it makes more sense to see how the community is going to fill out. Your model is what happened in the 50s and 60s, and now you have inner city communities with schools less than a kilometre apart. Those school are struggling to get students, and we are now faced with busing kids to fill those schools.

With regards to rentals, having just faced that myself I have to say there are rentals near schools, but you have to be prepared to pay a premium. I'm easily paying an extra $200 per month over what I could have rented elsewhere; just for my son to be walking distance to his school.

As for the tax, I say there should be a gas tax. And soon. If gas had just dropped to 90¢ instead of 80¢, we would still be happy. And the gov't could have kept revenues up. When oil recovers and gas prices rise, make it the law that the gas tax also goes back down.

[Hockeyguy15]

So honest question for everyone saying they don't trust giving the PC's more money, are you going to vote for them come the next election?

I hear a lot of people complain about the PC's but then do the old "well who else am I going to vote for?". It just seems counter productive to not trust who you are voting for, if you really don't trust them why vote for them?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So honest question for everyone saying they don't trust giving the PC's more money, are you going to vote for them come the next election?

I hear a lot of people complain about the PC's but then do the old "well who else am I going to vote for?". It just seems counter productive to not trust who you are voting for, if you really don't trust them why vote for them?

I have never voted for the PCs in my goddamn life. Why the hell would I?

[Ozy_Flame]

It doesn't matter what people vote. Conversatives are a cultural choice, and no matter how bad they screw up, old folks and the staunch blue shirts will vote them in. You could be a obnoxious, mysoginsitic, drug-addicted circus clown who communicates with nose honks and farts and you could still get in if you wore the PC flag. That's Alberta for you - We like our politics like it was back in the 50's.

[Plett25]

IMO this is what needs to be done.

Step 1. An act that requires all oil and gas royalties to go into the Heritage Fund, and 5% of the balance of the Heritage Fund gets put into general revenue. This turns royalty revenue into more of an annuity, to be grown for future generations and smooths the boom bust cycle of provincial revenues. It also makes the big hole in the budget even bigger.

Step 2. Introduce HST of 10% to plug most of the hole. HST isn't perfect, but it can be implemented quickly with essentially no cost to Albertans. The alternative is a PST that still isn't perfect and requires time and money to implement, along with additional bureaucracy. Even with a 10% HST, Alberta still had a tax advantage over pretty much the whole country.

Step 3. Now with more predictable future revenues, cut whatever needs to be cut to balance the budget.

[Canehdianman]

I'd be in favour of a 2% PST and putting royalty revenue into the Heritage fund without being able to touch it (or the interest)

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Plett25

IMO this is what needs to be done.



Step 1. An act that requires all oil and gas royalties to go into the Heritage Fund, and 5% of the balance of the Heritage Fund gets put into general revenue. This turns royalty revenue into more of an annuity, to be grown for future generations and smooths the boom bust cycle of provincial revenues. It also makes the big hole in the budget even bigger.



Step 2. Introduce HST of 10% to plug most of the hole. HST isn't perfect, but it can be implemented quickly with essentially no cost to Albertans. The alternative is a PST that still isn't perfect and requires time and money to implement, along with additional bureaucracy. Even with a 10% HST, Alberta still had a tax advantage over pretty much the whole country.



Step 3. Now with more predictable future revenues, cut whatever needs to be cut to balance the budget.

Very reasonable

[Ozy_Flame]

The last thing we should be doing is dipping into the Heritage Fund, we should constantly be feeding it. Variable returns on O/G royalties should go to the same place no matter how boom or bust the economy is; the government has to de-link direct budgetary funding from commodity prices. I have no problem with an HST of 10% as Plett25 suggested.

[Resolute 14]

Whether or not one thinks it would be reasonable, a 5% sales tax probably would have been enough to cause the PC government to crash if Smith et al hadn't sold out the only viable alternative.

Of course, Liberal and NDP supporters will whine about Alberta "sheep" not voting anything else as they continue to fail to understand that their bland, uninspiring leaders don't sell people on those parties.

[terminator]

A 3 month slump in oil prices is driving PST?

The slump is an excuse the motivation lies else where.

[longsuffering]

removed

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I love how this can just asserted like dogma with no data, evidence or context. Mind numbing. But I guess we're in the business of telling ourselves what we want to hear not actually dealing with problems.

Pretending that Alberta hasn't spent 20-50% more on, on average, than comparable provinces over more than a decade is merely putting your head in the sand. Pretending that government spending hasn't doubled since 2000 with only a 25% increase in population is ridiculous. No data, context or evidence is needed to support what's common knowledge. Telling ourselves that throwing more money at problems that haven't even begun to be solved by throwing more money at them is the very definition of "telling ourselves what we want to hear not actually dealing with problems."

A sales tax is a good idea but only if resource revenues are completely removed from the AB budget. Most Albertans' reject a tax and spend socialist paradise, and having our tax burdens reflect actual spending is a move in the right direction.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Not having a sales tax in Alberta has been a sacred cow for a long time now. That's not to say its the right financial decision.

That this is coming up after the government has effectively dismantled the official opposition should be a massive concern.

The amount of debate in government this issue is going to receive is going to be almost zero. Its going to be a mere decision by Prentice, and while he will consult, its going to be mostly closed-door meetings and private memos and reports. There is no chance this will be properly debated on the floor of the legislature. We should all be concerned about that.

While I (still) like him, I think its more appropriate to refer to him as Chairman Prentice. He is the decider. There are no checks, no balances, this government has complete reign.

That's on the voters. Want more debate and other views? Don't give the Tories all the seats in the Legislature.

[Rerun]

Before we institute a PST, I'd like to see the 10% Provincial Income Tax abolished and replaced with something like BC has. Its time all the CP 1%'ers paid their fair share.

Provincial/territorial tax rates for 2015 (except Quebec)

Newfoundland and Labrador
7.7% on the first $35,008 of taxable income, +
12.5% on the next $35,007, +
13.3% on the amount over $70,015

Prince Edward Island
9.8% on the first $31,984 of taxable income, +
13.8% on the next $31,985, +
16.7% on the amount over $63,969

Nova Scotia
8.79% on the first $29,590 of taxable income, +
14.95% on the next $29,590, +
16.67% on the next $33,820, +
17.5% on the next $57,000, +
21% on the amount over $150,000

New Brunswick
9.68% on the first $39,973 of taxable income, +
14.82% on the next $39,973, +
16.52% on the next $50,029, +
17.84% on the amount over $129,975

Ontario
5.05% on the first $40,922 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $40,925, +
11.16% on the next $68,153, +
12.16% on the next $70,000, +
13.16 % on the amount over $220,000

Manitoba
10.8% on the first $31,000 of taxable income, +
12.75% on the next $36,000, +
17.4% on the amount over $67,000

Saskatchewan
11% on the first $44,028 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $81,767, +
15% on the amount over $125,795

Alberta
10% of taxable income

British Columbia
5.06% on the first $37,869 of taxable income, +
7.7% on the next $37,871, +
10.5% on the next $11,218, +
12.29% on the next $18,634, +
14.7% on the next $44,408, +
16.8% on the amount over $150,000

Yukon
7.04% on the first $44,701 of taxable income, +
9.68% on the next $44,700, +
11.44% on the next $49,185, +
12.76% on the amount over $138,586

Northwest Territories
5.9% on the first $40,484 of taxable income, +
8.6% on the next $40,487, +
12.2% on the next $50,670, +
14.05% on the amount over $131,641

Nunavut
4% on the first $42,622 of taxable income, +
7% on the next $42,621, +
9% on the next $53,343, +
11.5% on the amount over $138,586

[nfotiu]

While a sales tax is probably a good idea, wouldn't implementing it now be the exact wrong time to increase taxes and essentially take more money out of the economy?

[Imported_Aussie]

Lose the flat tax rate - that way the wealthier pay more taxes (which they can afford). a PST/HST taxes everyone the same - as everyone has to buy groceries, gas, etc. The only way a sales tax does not disadvantage those with less income is if it is strictly applied to "luxury" items, but a tax like that would be a logistical nightmare and cost more to implement than worthwhile.

[Jacks]

Let's not forget that these clowns couldn't balance the books with record revenues. I don't trust this government to save a dime, give them more tax money and they will spend it.

I can't embed the chart on this page but it's worth a look.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...its/index.html