Lombardi was told not to hire Sutter in L.A.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by neo45

Sutter is a great hockey mind and his reputation as a bad GM is pretty undeserved.

Alis Kotalik

All I can say.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Owen15

Alis Kotalik

All I can say.

And the best goaltender for a 10 year period is his counter.

[Fischy13]

Nobody knows if Sutter was pushed in the decision to move Phaneuf or hire Brent. I'm positive Darryl was against working with family in a coach/GM position. With Kipper, Sutter was 100% the talent identifier who knew what he was getting. Getting Bourque was a good move too. I wonder if he was told to move Prust as well..... He went and got him back, why would you bring him back if you weren't sold on him. Clearly the facts point to meddling and some of the blame Sutter takes for these moves is unjustified.

The other debate regarding the drafting, Sutter was obviously relying on his scouts, and the poor drafting is why he started overhauling that staff. If I'm not mistaken, he was the one who brought in Michel Goulet? If he knew his scouting department was poor, this could also be why he traded 1st away like he did. Didn't have faith in them. That or pressure to go for it. I do think Sutter was the fall guy for lots, likely some justified but unless your Darryl, Ken King or part of ownership, you'll never know and can't stick it all on Darryl.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Yet his businesses he runs have won a lot.

The LA businesses he had no say in running did ok.

Since coming to TO and putting his two cents in he had been awful.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

And the best goaltender for a 10 year period is his counter.

countered with systematically crippling the Flames organization

I love Darryl - he's so awesome, but he was a no good GM

[Tinordi]

I guess you could consider Sutter a good general manager, if you like bad general managers.

[FAN]

Sutter was the classic case of a GM coach who was a better GM when he was coaching the team. Once he stopped being coach, he hired the wrong guys to coach the team and he no longer felt the pulse of the team and didn't know what the team needed.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Owen15

Alis Kotalik

All I can say.

The Phaneuf trade was just a bad hockey trade but the Kotalik trade really was a WTF deal. He gave up Jokinen (expiring deal) and Prust for two players that were struggling mighty in NY and Kotalik in particular couldn't even get out of the press box with two years & $6 million remaining. It's like he was playing Russian Roulette with the owners money as Kotalik was always a long shot to work out for the Flames. The deal was a major win for the Rangers as Prust became a big contributor and they got Kotalik's deal off the books without taking any major salary back.

What's with the Rangers? Whether it be the Flames, Habs or other teams willing taking their bad contracts off their hands or compliance (have to believe the Rangers were one of the teams pushing hard for that) buyouts they for the most part always seem to get out of their horrible contracts.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Why are we even talking about Sutter's resume as a GM?

Lombardi hired him as a coach, something he was brilliant at in Calgary, something he's been ever better at in LA.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Why are we even talking about Sutter's resume as a GM?

Lombardi hired him as a coach, something he was brilliant at in Calgary, something he's been ever better at in LA.

It's actually part of the topic of why Lombardi was told not to hire Sutter. Around the league a lot of people really did think he was a bad hire for the Kings but that was mostly to do because of the stink of his work as GM for the Flames. He was viewed as a bit of a dinosaur. It overshadowed the fact that he was always a fantastic coach and won everywhere he went.

[GGG]

One thing with the Sutter hire is that outside of Calgary Puck (maybe Calgary in general media excluded) everyone thought it was a bad hire. The entire hockey media disagreed with it. Here we were celebrating it as a great move but Liwekies position was matched by 100% of the media and likely most hockey minds in the league. Its tough to blame Liwiekie for having the same opinion as 90% of people.

Also he didn't meddle, he told his GM that this hire is on you, screw it up and you are out. Its not a big vote of confidence but as an employee I would appreciate that bluntness from my boss.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GGG

One thing with the Sutter hire is that outside of Calgary Puck (maybe Calgary in general media excluded) everyone thought it was a bad hire. The entire hockey media disagreed with it. Here we were celebrating it as a great move but Liwekies position was matched by 100% of the media and likely most hockey minds in the league. Its tough to blame Liwiekie for having the same opinion as 90% of people.

Also he didn't meddle, he told his GM that this hire is on you, screw it up and you are out. Its not a big vote of confidence but as an employee I would appreciate that bluntness from my boss.

I recall posting my opinion numerous times before being hired by the Kings that he was the best coach in the world not working in the NHL. I have to believe that some around the league could still look at his resume and recognize that he was still a great coach. We know at least one did and it paid off for him. I would like to think that maybe some GM's may have shied away from him because of the negatives press that may come with the hire and maybe the fact that he was a GM which could maybe make a GM in a tenuous position a little insecure.

[chopper89]

The best aspect of Sutter the GM, was he was the first GM in 20 years to bring back a "WIN NOW AT ALL COSTS" attitude.

This meant taking some chances, moving prospects and picks for more established guys, and investing in almost over'the'hill players for that legendary 'veteran presence' needed for long playoff runs.

Some moves worked and some didn't, but I do get sick of the 20-20 hindsight. I know you can go back to CP on the days we traded for Jay Bouwmeester's negotiating rights, or the days we signed Darren McCarty, Tony Amonte or Owen Nolan..and the overwhelming sentiment was positive. Now I'll admit I hated the Jeff Friesen signing, and felt the Phaneuf trade was the first time I remember him panicking and make a move out of desperation- the sure way to get fired.

All in all though, I think every fan was excited that there was a good chance at each draft and deadline day that Calgary would make the biggest splash. Sutter was trying to win the Stanley Cup, period. You can deride him now because he didn't, but ultimately that's what you hire a GM to do, no?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

And the best goaltender for a 10 year period is his counter.

A reasonable point, but IIRC the trade for Kipper was Sutter reacting to an emergency situation - the injury to Turek and (I think) the backup, as well. Although he had prior experience with Kipper from his days as San Jose's coach, I doubt Sutter realized what a gem he was getting. The deal for Kotalik, on the other hand, had lots of planning behind it.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Why are we even talking about Sutter's resume as a GM?

Lombardi hired him as a coach, something he was brilliant at in Calgary, something he's been ever better at in LA.

Coaching made a lot easier considering LA has 3 times the talent and skill level Darryl ever had in Calgary with Kipper being the exception!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by chopper89

The best aspect of Sutter the GM, was he was the first GM in 20 years to bring back a "WIN NOW AT ALL COSTS" attitude.

This meant taking some chances, moving prospects and picks for more established guys, and investing in almost over'the'hill players for that legendary 'veteran presence' needed for long playoff runs.

Some moves worked and some didn't, but I do get sick of the 20-20 hindsight. I know you can go back to CP on the days we traded for Jay Bouwmeester's negotiating rights, or the days we signed Darren McCarty, Tony Amonte or Owen Nolan..and the overwhelming sentiment was positive. Now I'll admit I hated the Jeff Friesen signing, and felt the Phaneuf trade was the first time I remember him panicking and make a move out of desperation- the sure way to get fired.

All in all though, I think every fan was excited that there was a good chance at each draft and deadline day that Calgary would make the biggest splash. Sutter was trying to win the Stanley Cup, period. You can deride him now because he didn't, but ultimately that's what you hire a GM to do, no?

Fans here will in short order justify any more. There is the initial WTF reaction that quickly moves to justify and explaining it away. You are rarely going to go into a trade or signing thread and see a majority panning it right away. We all want to believe the GM knows what he's doing as fans. Hindsight is how you can judge how these things work-out.

[Tinordi]

All in all though, I think every fan was excited that there was a good chance at each draft and deadline day that Calgary would make the biggest splash. Sutter was trying to win the Stanley Cup, period. You can deride him now because he didn't, but ultimately that's what you hire a GM to do, no?

If your goal is to win the cup and you win zero playoff rounds in 7 years then you aren't good at your job.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If your goal is to win the cup and you win zero playoff rounds in 7 years then you aren't good at your job.

Which 7 years would these be?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Which 7 years would these be?

Six years. I expect he counted the lockout year
05-06
06-07
07-08
08-09
09-10
10-11

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If your goal is to win the cup and you win zero playoff rounds in 7 years then you aren't good at your job.

05-06 is the only year in my opinion that we shouldn't have lost.

06-07 we weren't well coached and lost to against a very strong Wings team

07-08 the Sharks series went to a game 7

08-09 had us missing Giordano and Regher. Langkow was playing with two broken hands, Phaneuf could barely skate, and Bourque was still injured.

I think Sutter did a fine job. Sometimes you just don't win.